This is the thing. I'm no Biden stan; the actual left (not just "Democrats") are of the same mind. Biden and the dems did botch many aspects of their immigration policy, which then made room for Trump's horrific xenophobia
to gain traction and become policy.

We agree here 100%. The Biden admin would have been better off going back
to whatever the Obama admin was doing. It probably wasn't near perfect, either, but it worked better than what they did/didn't do and probably
would have satisfied all but the most left-leaning Democrats.

Now, on the subject of flight risk,
I would just say that the issue is
the ability to overclassify people.
We should use the actual apparatus
of the state to actually DETERMINE
who would be a flight risk, not
just do it as a matter of course,
which is my part of my point.
If you just blanket classify people
we arrive right back where we are now. That is why it is bad policy to do.

I would agree in the case of people we know something about. The problem
here is that US law enforcement may not have any past history with these people. Treating them like they are not a flight risk, blanket or not,
while not knowing anything about them is a worse policy.

There is a right way to do this.
I don't think there's a "middle" way
to do this,

I think the correct way is likely going to be closer to a "middle" way than
to the either side of the political spectrum way.

but I do think the
left I often talk to doesn't do
enough to consider how people are living out on the border states,

Agree.

and the right, in particular the
MAGA right, refuses to
acknowledge the facts that
most of the things they complain
about are NOT tied to immigration
but rather to a combo of market
forces and refusal to stamp out corruption and financial power
by our politicians from the
local level on up.

I agree with the last bit re: corruption. Some of what they complain about certainly is tied to immigration and a combo of forces -- HRC's stint as SOS and the Biden admin's, and/or the person he named as border czar's,
failures -- that certainly won't be fixed by anything the left comes up with.

Which takes me back to the correct way is likely somewhere in the political middle and not the way either political extreme has or would want it handled.

Punishing people that actuall have nothin to do with the real problems does nothing but hurt our country.

I agree that rounding people up in the streets falls into this "nothing but hurt" category. Turning them away at the border, or holding them somewhere until their court date comes up, does not.


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Re: Still with Trump
By: Dumas Walker to VILENIHILIST on Fri Mar 27 2026 10:51 am

This is the thing. I'm no Biden st > > the actual left (not just "Democrats") are of the same mind. > > Biden and the dems did botch many aspects of their immigration polic > > which then made room for Trump's horrific xenophobia
to gain traction and become policy >

We agree here 100%. The Biden admin > would have been better off going bac > to whatever the Obama admin was doin > It probably wasn't near perfect,
either, but it worked better than wh > they did/didn't do and probably
would have satisfied all but the mos > left-leaning Democrats.

Now, on the subject of flight risk > > I would just say that the issue is > > the ability to overclassify people > > We should use the actual apparatus > > of the state to actually DETERMINE > > who would be a flight risk, not
just do it as a matter of course,
which is my part of my point.
If you just blanket classify peopl > > we arrive right back where we are now. That is why it is bad policy > > do.

I would agree in the case of people > know something about. The problem here is that US law enforcement may > have any past history with these people. Treating them like they are > not a flight risk, blanket or not, while not knowing anything about the > is a worse policy.

There is a right way to do this.
I don't think there's a "middle" w > > to do this,

I think the correct way is likely go > to be closer to a "middle" way than to the either side of the political
spectrum way.

but I do think the
left I often talk to doesn't do
enough to consider how people are
living out on the border states,

Agree.

and the right, in particular the
MAGA right, refuses to
acknowledge the facts that
most of the things they complain
about are NOT tied to immigration
but rather to a combo of market
forces and refusal to stamp out
corruption and financial power
by our politicians from the
local level on up.

I agree with the last bit re:
corruption. Some of what they compl > about certainly is tied to immigrati > and a combo of forces -- HRC's stint > SOS and the Biden admin's, and/or th > person he named as border czar's,
failures -- that certainly won't be
fixed by anything the left comes up
with.

Which takes me back to the correct w > is likely somewhere in the political > middle and not the way either politi > extreme has or would want it handled >

Punishing people that actuall have > > nothin to do with the real problem > > does nothing but hurt our country. >

I agree that rounding people up in t > streets falls into this "nothing but > hurt" category. Turning them away a > the border, or holding them somewher > until their court date comes up, doe > not.

* SLMR 2.1a * Southern DOS: Y'all
reckon? (Yep/Nope)

I have only small points of
disagreement with you on this, but
nothing that is easily discussed
through writing; some things are
expressed better in person via voice.
Otherwise I can reach a point of
agreement in that. I will clarify
though that what I mean is that the
issues based in immigration, such as
they are, are based in the forces I
mentioned; they didn't sppontaneously
occur on their own. There is a class ofAmerican exploiting all of us and foreigners who come here, and that,
plus American interventionism, is a bigdriver of the illegal immigration that animate the conservative mind. And if
you approach it from that perspective,
you will find that neither party is
eager to address the underlying cause
of that immigration.

Dems and Reps will not hold the
business classes responsible for their
role, they won't enforce labor laws
that would reduce the incentive to havethis underclass of workers, and in Trump's unique case, he has gutted
USAID so the chance to use soft power
to help foreign governments and thus
reduce the issues that drive mass
exodus to the US has been vastly
weakened.

This of course is becaue ultimately thewealthy benefit from the less wealthy underpaying the destitute because they
have nothing and are desperate.



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Re: Still with Trump
By: Vilenihilist to Utopian Galt on Sat Mar 21 2026 11:59 am

Its not just white people, its Christians and non muslims of any ethnicity. The problem is the left largely wants to replace their population because they want their agenda passed.

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As a white Buddhist in America, I disagree with your statement.

Dexxalex

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Re: Still with Trump
By: Vilenihilist to Arelor on Fri Mar 27 2026 06:23 am

So tryin to force others to abide
that is fucked up.

Absolutely.

That is why inorganic attempts at forcing a particular cultural archetype have utterly failed and a big factor why entertainment franchises these days are in ruins.



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Re: Still with Trump
By: Vilenihilist to Arelor on Fri Mar 27 2026 06:31 am

You cats cannot seem to acknowledge
that there is a rot, a cancer coming
from the right that stinks of the
old evils of this country. You get
mad when people like me tell you
this is real and a problem.

I am not a cat. I identify myself as a horse.

And as I said, I am not dennying there are rednecks who are fucked up in their heads, but when I interact with American business or get in contact with American cultural products, you rarely see any of that but you used to get a whole ton of crap from the other field.

For all the tariffs and protectionism and American isolationism, I get vibes that my contributions to the American economy are not welcome from the woke types whereas everybody else does not care the least who I am or where I hail from.

Thankfully most of that trend is crashing and burning these days.



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Re: Still with Trump
By: Vilenihilist to Dumas Walker on Mon Mar 30 2026 06:48 am

Dems and Reps will not hold the
business classes responsible for their
role, they won't enforce labor laws
that would reduce the incentive to havethis underclass of workers, and in Trump's unique case, he has gutted
USAID so the chance to use soft power
to help foreign governments and thus
reduce the issues that drive mass
exodus to the US has been vastly
weakened.

This approach comes from the point of view that powerful countries are responsible for the problems of less powerful countries, which is not true as often as some would like to believe.

Let's take Mexico as a simplified example. To put it bluntly,

a) The work of the US government is to defend the interests of their citizens, nor Mexico's.

b) A whole lot of Mexico's problems are related to the way Mexico manages their matters.

c) If the US were to introduce projects to develop Mexico they would be thrown into /dev/null

The European counterpart is clearly visible: Spaniards have a tendency to blame all of their problems on external forces - it is always Germany or whatever who is to blame for the fact Spanish farming is barely sustainable, for example. But then the EU injects vasts amounts of money into developing the Spanish farming economy...

... and it doesn't improve...

... because money they hand to a government does not get translated into adecuate use, and beyond that, core issues are internal and cannot be fixed with money.


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This of course is becaue ultimately thewealthy benefit from the less wealthy underpaying the destitute because they have nothing and are desperate.

No doubt that has a whole lot to do with it!

Mike


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Re: Still with Trump
By: Arelor to Vilenihilist on Tue Mar 31 2026 05:17 am

This approach comes from the point o > view that powerful countries are responsible for the problems of less > powerful countries, which is not tru > as often as some would like to belie >
Let's take Mexico as a simplified
example. To put it bluntly,

a) The work of the US government is > defend the interests of their citize > nor Mexico's.

b) A whole lot of Mexico's problems > related to the way Mexico manages th > matters.

c) If the US were to introduce proje > to develop Mexico they would be thro > into /dev/null

The European counterpart is clearly
visible: Spaniards have a tendency t > blame all of their problems on exter > forces - it is always Germany or
whatever who is to blame for the fac > Spanish farming is barely sustainabl > for example. But then the EU injects > vasts amounts of money into developi > the Spanish farming economy...

... and it doesn't improve...

... because money they hand to a
government does not get translated i > adecuate use, and beyond that, core issues are internal and cannot be fi > with money.

I take your point but its also not
quite what I was getting at. It's not
tht it's our RESPONSIBILITY to do
things for other countries. Its not.
And they do have their own agency, you
are correct. What I'm saying is that ifAmerica has certain domestic policies
it wants accomplished, in this case a
reduction in illegal immigration and
the "wrong" type of immigrants, then itfollows that we need to pursue
policies, relationships, trade, and
programs that accomplish those goals,
and that cannot be done entirely withinthe borders of the United States. So while we can complain about who has to
step up their game all night long,
there's theory and there's fact.

Now mind you, I don't believe in doing
this to the point of interventionism;
clearly that is a failed policy and hasbeen harmful around the world for decades. But cooperation? Building up
allies to shore up our domestic
tranquility? We should always be doing
that.

That's just my two cents though.



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