AI bots and ScamBots have INFESTED
just about every form of
communications to the point it is
now virtually impossible to tell
the bots from real people.
The last bot free service on the planet other than face to face meetups.
... How do I set my laser printer to stun?
FB is totally BORKED!!
Sending me notifications for posts I've seen more than 24 hours prior,
Not showing me time critical posts until the events have already
passed.
AI bots and ScamBots have INFESTED just about every form of
communications to the point it is now virtually impossible to tell the bots from real people.
Geri Atricks wrote to All <=-
AI bots and ScamBots have INFESTED just about every form of
communications to the point it is now virtually impossible to tell the bots from real people.
slacker wrote to Geri Atricks <=-
Agreed. It's getting really bad. The only social media type thing I'm
on these days is Reddit and some subs are just flooded with bot posts. (Looking at you /r/AITA and the like)
Agreed. It's getting really bad. The only social media type thing I'm
on these days is Reddit and some subs are just flooded with bot posts. (Looking at you /r/AITA and the like)
Yeah, twitter and Reddit are both champions of The Story That Never
Happened.
Geri Atricks wrote to All <=-
AI bots and ScamBots have INFESTED just about every form of communications to the point it is now virtually impossible to tell th bots from real people.
I wonder how much of the total internet traffic is AI slop and bots now?
For these reasons primarily, I am leaving Social Media and retreating back to the good ole pre-internet BBS. The last bot free service on the planet other
than face to face meetups.
boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
On 03 Apr 2026 at 08:35a, poindexter FORTRAN pondered and said...
Geri Atricks wrote to All <=-
AI bots and ScamBots have INFESTED just about every form of communications to the point it is now virtually impossible to tell th bots from real people.
I wonder how much of the total internet traffic is AI slop and bots now?
I think a lot of it is.
There is a lot of bots on X, and a lot of scammy accounts, particularly from India. But slop has been around a while. I noticed, even many
years ago, you would search for a topic for which there should be many
old pages, but Google would return new pages, brief "introductory'
pages on old topics, like old Unix utilities and the like.
boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
On 03 Apr 2026 at 08:35a, poindexter FORTRAN pondered and said...
Geri Atricks wrote to All <=-
AI bots and ScamBots have INFESTED just about every form of communications to the point it is now virtually impossible to te bots from real people.
I wonder how much of the total internet traffic is AI slop and bots
I think a lot of it is.
There is a lot of bots on X, and a lot of scammy accounts, particular from India. But slop has been around a while. I noticed, even many years ago, you would search for a topic for which there should be man old pages, but Google would return new pages, brief "introductory' pages on old topics, like old Unix utilities and the like.
In my experience Mastodon hasn't been taken over like this yet, but give it time and it might be.
Mastodon servers from what I know require a lot more horse power to run than bbs's though.
In my experience Mastodon hasn't been taken over like this yet, but g it time and it might be.
Mastodon servers from what I know require a lot more horse power to r than bbs's though.
I almost forgot about Mastodon...
Khronos wrote to boraxman <=-
In my experience Mastodon hasn't been taken over like this yet, but
give it time and it might be.
Mastodon servers from what I know require a lot more horse power to run than bbs's though.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
* Origin: telnet://cwshack.ddns.net:2330 (21:2/153)
boraxman wrote to Khronos <=-
I almost forgot about Mastodon...
Mastodon is federated right? Is there some central control? I'm wary
of platforms where there is undue censorship.
In my experience Mastodon hasn't been taken over like this yet, but give it time and it might be.
Mastodon servers from what I know require a lot more horse power to run than bbs's though.
Mastodon is federated right? Is there some central control? I'm wary of platforms where there is undue censorship.
Please pardon my ignorance, but other than the prehistoric ancester of the elephant, I've never heard of this Mastodon. Please enlighten me.
Khronos wrote to boraxman <=-
In my experience Mastodon hasn't been taken over like this yet, but give it time and it might be.
As long as the feed remains chronological and I can block/mute accounts
I don't want to hear from, I think Mastodon has a fighting chance. I've
already seen some servers get blacklisted, I think fracturing is more
of an issue than signal-to-noise ratio.
I almost forgot about Mastodon...
Mastodon is federated right? Is there some central control? I'm wary of platforms where there is undue censorship.
i don't recall if it was around here (bbs scene) or elsewhere but
someone had mentioned some of the mastodon clients that would be the
most useful (phone) come pre-configured to ban a collection of various servers for reasons you may or may not agree with.
the problem is you don't really get to choose..
I almost forgot about Mastodon...
Please pardon my ignorance, but other than the prehistoric ancester of
the elephant, I've never heard of this Mastodon. Please enlighten me.
I almost forgot about Mastodon...
Mastodon is federated right? Is there some central control? I'm war of platforms where there is undue censorship.
No central control, more of an anarcho-centric coalition. Each node has
their own policies and themes, and if they choose, they can block
specific nodes (and their users) based on whatever.
If you don't agree with the editorial bent of the node you're on, you
can pick another node - or start your own. And, you can easily
redirect your follow list and users to your current location. For
example, I started off on mastodon.social, the main server. After
playing with tildes, I found tilde.zone and wanted to use that as my
URL and my main instance. With a few settings, I was able to copy over
who I followed, and make mastodon.social point people to my new
location.
On 08 Apr 2026, boraxman said the following...
I almost forgot about Mastodon...
Mastodon is federated right? Is there some central control? I'm war platforms where there is undue censorship.
i don't recall if it was around here (bbs scene) or elsewhere but
someone had mentioned some of the mastodon clients that would be the
most useful (phone) come pre-configured to ban a collection of various servers for reasons you may or may not agree with.
the problem is you don't really get to choose..
speech. Elon has done well with X in this regard. The thing with
can find some place which has an editorial bent that doesn't conflict
with you, but thats just another echo chamber.
I think I prefer just to have a single, proper open network with free speech. Elon has done well with X in this regard.
the problem is you don't really get to choose..I can pretty much already tell the politics of a group or movement or scene, where they ban servers. That alone is a big turn off from the technology.
I think I prefer just to have a single, proper open network with free speech. Elon has done well with X in this regard.
No... free speech at all costs is not healthy, and X isn't even that.
It's free speech if Elon agrees with you (mostly), but X is now really quite well known as being a toxic shithole.
I wonder about the free speech claim, too, since evidently one cannot
say, "cis", so far as I understand. Which really cuts down on discussion of cis fatty acids. And Musk amplifies his own voice over others.
But I'll do my best to leave the topic alone, as it'll get into politics
a little too quickly, I imagine. As likely does _anything_ Musk.
Possible that everything is an echo chamber, to _some_ extent. Since the people into various places are into those places for a reason.
E.g., we're all on BBSs, and that's going to limit which sort of people are here.
And FSXnet has a few rules that differentiate it from other networks,
thus also selecting people (or things discussed), to whatever extent.
But chatting on FSXnet is significantly more pleasant to me than elsewhere, and whether or not people consider it an echo chamber, I'd vastly prefer it over places where "engagement" means rage bait and controversy.
Here, it feels like we have at least a little more, "consider the people behind the screen", and thus it feels a bit more human than I seem to be able to get over much of the rest of the internet.
(Probably doesn't hurt that people/bots using LLMs haven't spent a whole lot of time writing messages here, too.)
Re: Re: Social Media
By: boraxman to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Apr 09 2026 01:40 am
I think I prefer just to have a single, proper open network with free speech. Elon has done well with X in this regard.
No... free speech at all costs is not healthy, and X isn't even that.
It's free speech if Elon agrees with you (mostly), but X is now really quite well known as being a toxic shithole.
Look what gets amplified there... I'm sorry, but by just about most any reasonable standards, X is not a good place.
the problem is you don't really get to choose..I can pretty much already tell the politics of a group or movement or scene, where they ban servers. That alone is a big turn off from the technology.
Like a BBS, you can set up your own and federate with whoever you wish,
or whoever will tolerate you.
I don't understand the notion of forcing extreme speech on people as
being a good thing.
Elon is a KNOWN NAZI
Piss on Elon! He can go back to sucking on Trumps gerkin.
NuSkooler wrote to Geri Atricks <=-
Twas Wednesday, April 8th when Geri Atricks said...
Elon is a KNOWN NAZI
Facts.
Piss on Elon! He can go back to sucking on Trumps gerkin.
+1.
I thought politics weren't supposed to be in play around here.
What do people get banned for? Is there censorship?
particular point of view blocked. There are some extreme banned accounts (violence, CP, etc, which is fine)
I'm not sure whether the issue some people have is because they are reading things they don't like, or because they are unable to put forward their particular views.
Exodus wrote to Gamgee <=-
I thought politics weren't supposed to be in play around here.
You know how it goes. Do as the democrap's say, not as they do.
What do people get banned for? Is there censorship?
I would suggest that getting banned isn't the only measure of
censorship. If thier algorithm has been tweaked to only amplify certain takes, then what would you call the takes that fall outside of that?
particular point of view blocked. There are some extreme banned acco (violence, CP, etc, which is fine)
I don't recall them shutting down Grok.
Both, I believe. When one eventually realizes they're sitting at the
nazi bar, that drives many away.
However, I appreciate your discussion on it!
--- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
One has to be careful here. Are you seeing certain views because they are amplified, or is it because they are more prevalent than you think.
I'm not sure what you are getting at here...particular point of view blocked. There are some extreme bannedI don't recall them shutting down Grok.
acco (violence, CP, etc, which is fine)
Again, I find it concerning that so many today think it a positive strategy to disengage and segregate themselves, and not listen to challenging ideas.
What actual facts do you have on that? Oh! I bet you're referring to that over-hyped "hand gesture" he made once!
By being exposed to other views, you have your own views challenged, and what you perceive to be right is tested. Now, you may find out you are wrong. But even if you are right, and the view you are exposed to is wrong, you now know better why you are right. You now know WHY they are wrong.
I had a work colleage tell me he went on X a bit, saw views he didn't like and leave. To me, someone like that has no business weighing in on anything. They forfeit their right to have their opinion on topics taken seriously.
I think this thread is dangerously close to being off-topic as
political, so we'll try and keep this narrowly focused.
Your statement quoted above misses the point that we're speaking specifically about X, and it's very clear how the platform has been bent since Musk took over. It wasn't hidden, it's not an opinion that "oh
it's now not what I believe in", it's been very clear what his goals
were and what's been implemented.
Grok is or was generating CSAM, but they haven't pulled Grok off the platform.
It's people's right to not be forced to listen to hate speech, racist speech, calls for genocide, disagreeing with people who want to 'other' everybody who's not just like them, disagreeing with disinformation, misinformation, conspiracy theory, people who are just wrong, oh, and
did I mention hate speech?
Nobody has the right to force themselves on others, and free speech
isn't a crutch to try and do that with.
Are you familiar with the intolerance paradox?
Are you familiar with https://xkcd.com/1357/ ?
This all assumes a well-educated, rational person, acting in good faith, capable of introspection.
There are untold millions of people in the world who lack education, aren't rational, choose not to act in good faith, and are either
incapable or unwilling to be introspective, or some combination of these attributes
Social media is designed specifically to dissuade the kind of consideration you're talking about. Posts sink or swim on popularity,
not merit. Popularity drives engagement, engagement generates ad views,
ad views generate revenue.
An example:
Nobody on Twitter ever said "You've given me food for thought, thank you for sharing this cited evidence supporting your claims regarding which
way to face the toilet paper roll. I will consider this and possibly reshape my views."
Because that's an end of a discussion.
What we get however, is "You're an idiot. Toilet roll facing forward is obviously what god intended (Lavatories 7:4-6). I will shoot you in the street if I find out you face it backwards."
Then you get likes from the forward-facing camp, and angry replies from the backward-facing camp, and Twitter makes more money. This post has engagement, floats to the top, seen by more people, the cycle continues.
Nothing of value is added to the world. Neither side is re-evaluating their views. Neither side is any the wiser. Even if one side was at some point interested in hearing dissenting views, they were ratio'd by the reply, and they get nothing
I don't know about you, but if I was a customer at a business, and other customers told me I should be dead because I had some physical trait, or was born in some particular country, I probably wouldn't go back. Heck,
if they were saying those things to a customer other than myself, I probably still would leave.
Perhaps the view he didn't like was "You're either with us, or you're the enemy."
Social media was a mistake.
Cheers,
RetroSwim
I sort of agree. It does assume a rational, intelligent and well rounded person. I would NOT say educated, as a lot of education now is just indoctrination and many are probably better without the so called education they got.
People do come to their own conclusions, but its
easy to blame algorithms when you dont want to admit that.
Now, this is not a popular opinion of mine, but I think the other issue
is I think that people should really stick to their own personal lives, and not get engaged in politics unless they ARE well rounded.
My issue is more with people who simply think that anyone who doesn't agree with them is evil and should be shut down. I hear that all too often.
Social Media is both a blessing and a curse. It really does depend on
the maturity of the person engaging with it.
NuSkooler wrote to Gamgee <=-
What actual facts do you have on that? Oh! I bet you're referring to that over-hyped "hand gesture" he made once!
Multiple "hand gestures". His overwhelming support for AfD. His support for the idea of the "replacement theory". His constant "Jew hating"
posts. The fact that he grew up in a Nazi family... lol
get real.
Retroswim wrote to boraxman <=-
Social media is designed specifically to dissuade the kind of consideration you're talking about. Posts sink or swim on popularity,
not merit. Popularity drives engagement, engagement generates ad views,
ad views generate revenue.
Social media was a mistake.
Social media was a mistake.Yes. In addition to people doing the things you mention, you also
have the bot farms that are set up to drive social media engagement by contributing to arguements.
Multiple "hand gestures". His overwhelming support for AfD. Hisfor the idea of the "replacement theory". His constant "Jew hating"
support
posts. The fact that he grew up in a Nazi family... lol
LOL is right... Better loosen up that tin-foil beanie a little, it's cutting off the blood flow to your brain.
NuSkooler wrote to Gamgee <=-
LOL is right... Better loosen up that tin-foil beanie a little, it's cutting off the blood flow to your brain.
So you're claim is these are not real things? I can list many more if you'd like, this is fun! His recent haircut Hitler cosplay, matching Bovino's SS cosplay, guess he wanted in. His reinstate of the various
VERY OPEN racist/nazis to X. X is now a haven for fully bonified Nazis.
Social media was a mistake.Yes. In addition to people doing the things you mention, you also
have the bot farms that are set up to drive social media engagement by contributing to arguements.
I wonder if there are any real people left on social media at all, or just the bot farms? At least FB's UI doesn't give me the impression it's intended for human beings to use.
|08 ��� |12NuSkooler |06// |12Xibalba |08- |07"|06The place of fear|07"
|08 ��� |03xibalba|08.|03vip |08(|0344510|08/|03telnet|08, |0344511|08/|03ssh|08
|08 ��� |03ENiGMA 1/2 WHQ |08| |03Phenom |08| |0367 |08| |03iMPURE |08|
|03ACiDi
What is all this garbage? If it's specific to a certain BBS flavor,
maybe it doesn't belong in an echomail message?
Educated not necessarily meaning some predetermined level of formal
study, moreso having some basic idea about the world beyond one's
bedroom walls.
For instance, when people were confusing Georgia the country, with
Georgia the state, and confidently entering discourse about electoral fraud on that basis. You don't need university to not be that stupid.
Perhaps that kind of thing falls under "well rounded"?
I'm more blaming the algorithm for disincentivising earnest conversation. Intelligent, rational, well-rounded people won't bother contributing well-thought-out posts, knowing they will be swamped with rage-baiting trash, and never seen.
For real!
But alas, it's hard to "know what you don't know". Everyone thinks they are well-rounded! lol
Agree, that's unhelpful regardless of the context.
Maturity on social media is in short supply, sadly haha!
Cheers,
RetroSwim
Yes. In addition to people doing the things you mention, you also have the bot farms that are set up to drive social media engagement by contributing to arguements.
It is a big mistake.
I wonder if there are any real people left on social media at all, or
just the bot farms? At least FB's UI doesn't give me the impression it's intended for human beings to use.
Jegor
LOL is right... Better loosen up that tin-foil beanie a little, it's cutting off the blood flow to your brain.
So you're claim is these are not real things? I can list many more if you'd like, this is fun! His recent haircut Hitler cosplay, matching Bovino's SS cosplay, guess he wanted in. His reinstate of the various VERY OPEN racist/nazis to X. X is now a haven for fully bonified Nazi
I don't know if they're real or not. Neither do you, for absolute certainty. What I do know is that many things of this type are hyper-reported in the media, and made out to be more than what they really are, for purely political reasons. I'm gonna leave it at that.
Often people ask me for my opinion on this or that, and sometimes I just say "Its not for me to say", for example, if asked about
Israel-Palestine or something like that. I can't be bothered arguing things that don't matter to me and rather than risk appearing dumb
"It's not something I felt the need to explore" is a better response.
boraxman wrote to Gamgee <=-
LOL is right... Better loosen up that tin-foil beanie a little, it's cutting off the blood flow to your brain.
So you're claim is these are not real things? I can list many more if you'd like, this is fun! His recent haircut Hitler cosplay, matching Bovino's SS cosplay, guess he wanted in. His reinstate of the various VERY OPEN racist/nazis to X. X is now a haven for fully bonified Nazi
I don't know if they're real or not. Neither do you, for absolute certainty. What I do know is that many things of this type are hyper-reported in the media, and made out to be more than what they
really are, for purely political reasons. I'm gonna leave it at that.
Just judge for yourself. I judge Elon by his words and actions, and
I'll interpret them myself. If someone wants to say this or that,
thats up to them, and usually it just reveals more about their stance
than it does Elons.
Mike Powell wrote to Gamgee <=-fear|07
|08 n.'n.'n.' |12NuSkooler |06// |12Xibalba |08- |07"|06The place of
"|08
|08 n.'n.'n.' |03xibalba|08.|03vip |08(|0344510|08/|03telnet|08, |0344511|08/|03ssh|08
|08 n.'n.'n.' |03ENiGMA 1/2 WHQ |08| |03Phenom |08| |0367 |08| |03iMPURE
|03ACiDi
What is all this garbage? If it's specific to a certain BBS flavor,
maybe it doesn't belong in an echomail message?
I think they are pipe codes that some BBS softwares translate to ANSI.
I thought that Synchronet did but it has been a while since I have read
a message online so I am not sure.
SLMR does not translate them. :)
I think they are pipe codes that some BBS softwares translate to ANSI. I thought that Synchronet did but it has been a while since I have read a message online so I am not sure.
|08 ��� |03ENiGMA 1/2 WHQ |08| |03Phenom |08| |0367 |08|
|03iMPURE |08| |03ACiDi
What is all this garbage? If it's specific to a certain BBS
flavor, maybe it doesn't belong in an echomail message?
I think they are pipe codes that some BBS softwares translate to ANSI.
Thats kind of why I like it here... No bots!
I'm more blaming the algorithm for disincentivising earnest conversation. Intelligent, rational, well-rounded people won't bother contributing well-thought-out posts, knowing they will be swamped with rage-baiting trash, and never seen.
My issue is more with people who simply think that anyone who doesn't agree with them is evil and should be shut down. I hear that all too often.
Agree, that's unhelpful regardless of the context.
Your statement quoted above misses the point that we're speakingI don't know and I have to judge for myself. I don't really trust other peoples opinions, because they could very well be someone that sees some
specifically about X, and it's very clear how the platform has been bent
I heard of this. Is this something particular to Grok, or is it an AI flaw in general? Agree it should be curtailed until it is fixed.
The xkcd misses the point of free speech and gets it backwards. Free Speech was NOT about giving you the freedom to say what you like. The reason that Free Speech was deemed important, and as described by Mill, was that it was necessary to determine truth, correct misinformation and challenge incorrect ideas. It was not just to allow you to express
Xibalba - "The place of f∩â”╜∩â”╜∩â”â•œ NuSkooler //
(44510/telnet,∩â”╜∩â”╜∩â”â•œ xibalba.vip
44511/ssh
Phenom | 67 | iMPU∩â”╜∩â”╜∩â”â•œ ENiGMA 1/2 WHQ |
I don't know if they're real or not. Neither do you, for absolute certainty. What I do know is that many things of this type are hyper-reported in the media, and made out to be more than what they really are, for purely political reasons.
Yep, I guess that's what those are, but I don't think they should be included in echomail where many different softwares don't recognize them. On my SBBS system they are not displayed as ANSI/color, just the gibberish shown above.
They are, and are useless junk to those that don't run that specific bbs software.
boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I think I prefer just to have a single, proper open network with free speech. Elon has done well with X in this regard.
Mastodon, is that wouldn't that lead to echo chambers? Sure, maybe you can find some place which has an editorial bent that doesn't conflict
with you, but thats just another echo chamber.
I think for public discourse, it is important that people are exposed
to contrary ideas.
fusion wrote to boraxman <=-
i don't recall if it was around here (bbs scene) or elsewhere but
someone had mentioned some of the mastodon clients that would be the
most useful (phone) come pre-configured to ban a collection of various servers for reasons you may or may not agree with.
the problem is you don't really get to choose..
Adept wrote to boraxman <=-
But chatting on FSXnet is significantly more pleasant to me than elsewhere, and whether or not people consider it an echo chamber, I'd vastly prefer it over places where "engagement" means rage bait and controversy.
Here, it feels like we have at least a little more, "consider the
people behind the screen", and thus it feels a bit more human than I
seem to be able to get over much of the rest of the internet.
The Wanderer wrote to boraxman <=-
No... free speech at all costs is not healthy, and X isn't even that.
It's free speech if Elon agrees with you (mostly), but X is now really quite well known as being a toxic shithole.
boraxman wrote to The Wanderer <=-
What do people get banned for? Is there censorship?
Genuinely asking. I've heard people complain and leave because of what
IS said, but I haven't heard of people leaving because they've had a particular point of view blocked. There are some extreme banned
accounts (violence, CP, etc, which is fine)
Gamgee wrote to Exodus <=-
Exodus wrote to Gamgee <=-
I thought politics weren't supposed to be in play around here.
You know how it goes. Do as the democrap's say, not as they do.
Yup. "Rules for thee, but not for Me..." ;-)
The Wanderer wrote to boraxman <=-
It's people's right to not be forced to listen to hate speech, racist speech, calls for genocide, disagreeing with people who want to 'other' everybody who's not just like them, disagreeing with disinformation, misinformation, conspiracy theory, people who are just wrong, oh, and
did I mention hate speech?
Nobody has the right to force themselves on others, and free speech
isn't a crutch to try and do that with.
Are you familiar with the intolerance paradox?
Are you familiar with https://xkcd.com/1357/ ?
--- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
* Origin: Yak Station - Some yakkin' happenin'... (21:3/233)
Jegor wrote to Mike Powell <=-
I wonder if there are any real people left on social media at all, or
just the bot farms? At least FB's UI doesn't give me the impression
it's intended for human beings to use.
Mike Powell wrote to Gamgee <=-
I think they are pipe codes that some BBS softwares translate to ANSI.
I thought that Synchronet did but it has been a while since I have read
a message online so I am not sure.
SLMR does not translate them. :)
Xibalba - "The place of f∩â”╜∩â”╜∩â”â•œ NuSkooler 22;
40m
ba.vip (44510/22;∩â”╜∩â”╜∩â”â•œ xiba
6mtelnet,
44511/ssh
â– NuSkooler // Xibalba - "The place of fear"^^^^
â– xibalba.vip (44510/telnet, 44
NuSkooler wrote to Gamgee <=-
Yep, I guess that's what those are, but I don't think they should be included in echomail where many different softwares don't recognize
them. On my SBBS system they are not displayed as ANSI/color, just the gibberish shown above.
We've (BSS users) been doing this (sigs with pipe codes) since the
early 90's at least.
Funny, I've been mostly MIA for about 6-12 months here. I come back, and we have everyone crying about stuff that's been used since '90 or so. Pipe codes have been around since at least Renegade. We've all been using them forever... did a bunch of grumps from FidoNet just show up? Is that what happened?
What I'm saying is that those are fine on a local message base, but on an echomail network... How many people will see those as you meant them to be seen? Nowadays, *VERY* few people use BBS software that displays that junk properly. What's the point of doing it?
Not everyone is complaining. There are always a few of course but not everyone.
It used to be that online services claimed their role as an information distributor, not a publisher. in Cubby vs. CompuServe, CompuServe
claimed that they published content and didn't moderate, as they
Flash forward to present day, where Facebook and X manipulate feeds to show specific content to users, and the old 230 defense falls apart.
I suppose they're "too big to sue" now, or if 230 was breached, it'd
just be a cost of business for a billion-dollar service.
Nobody has the right to force themselves on others, and free speech isn't a crutch to try and do that with.
But, isn't censoring unsavory thoughts and speech by definition forcing
yourself on others?
NuSkooler wrote to Gamgee <=-
On Sunday, April 12th Gamgee was heard saying...
What I'm saying is that those are fine on a local message base, but on
an echomail network... How many people will see those as you meant them to be seen? Nowadays, *VERY* few people use BBS software that displays that junk properly. What's the point of doing it?
You're on a BBS network, for BBS users, and assuming people aren't
using BBSes to view the things?
I just ran some numbers showing what and from what software:| Software | Usr | Msg | Sig Style | CHRS |
Scanned 15,000 msgs from 437 FTN users (14,379 FTN posts)
+----------------+-----+------+---------------------+---------+
+----------------+-----+------+---------------------+---------+| Mystic BBS | 217 | 7015 | 160pln 33pip 24ansi | none |
+----------------+-----+------+---------------------+---------+
CHRS across all users:
(none) 302 69.1% \
ASCII 1 52 11.9% |-- 92.0% effectively CP437
CP437 2 48 11.0% |
IBMPC 2 3 0.7% /
UTF-8 4 19 4.3%
LATIN-1 9 2.1%
CP850 2 3 0.7%
UTF-8 2 1 0.2%
...so I changed my default to CP437 vs UTF-8 since readers are borking
and to support older software. But what's interesting there is the
other bits of data: the majority of messages are comming from BBSes,
and actively maintained BBSes at that.
|08 = |12NuSkooler |06// |12Xibalba |08- |07"|06The place of fear|07"||0344511|08/|03ssh|08)
|08 = |03xibalba|08.|03vip |08(|0344510|08/|03telnet|08,
|08 = |03ENiGMA 1/2 WHQ |08| |03Phenom |08| |0367 |08| |03iMPURE |08|||03ACiDic
The Wanderer wrote to boraxman <=-
Re: Re: Social Media
By: boraxman to The Wanderer on Sun Apr 12 2026 01:04 am
Your statement quoted above misses the point that we're speakingI don't know and I have to judge for myself. I don't really trust other peoples opinions, because they could very well be someone that sees some
specifically about X, and it's very clear how the platform has been bent
How is one supposed to see this as anything but "That goes counter to
my opinion and I'm not seeking out detail from credible sources?"
This is cognitive dissonance par excellence.
I heard of this. Is this something particular to Grok, or is it an AI flaw in general? Agree it should be curtailed until it is fixed.
This was Musk's forcing the Twitter team to make Grok "less woke". It's not a flaw in "AI", whatever that would purportedly mean.
The xkcd misses the point of free speech and gets it backwards. Free Speech was NOT about giving you the freedom to say what you like. The reason that Free Speech was deemed important, and as described by Mill, was that it was necessary to determine truth, correct misinformation and challenge incorrect ideas. It was not just to allow you to express
What Mill got wrong was that as described, "free speech" is exploitable
by fascists for authoritarian ends.
It's exactly what we see playing out in too many places presently.
The xkcd is referring to the people whining about being cancelled,
which, if you want to talk cancelling, should probably be a little
better defined as to what you mean.
NuSkooler wrote to boraxman <=-
On Monday, April 13th boraxman said...
I don't know if they're real or not. Neither do you, for absolute certainty. What I do know is that many things of this type are hyper-reported in the media, and made out to be more than what they
really are, for purely political reasons.
What a bunch of nonse. Yes I do. You can go read every bit of what I stated from Elon himself. Step into reality people. This type of "I
don't know if it's real" nonsense is some sort of new "I dont' want to
be wrong" copout crap.
It's real. You could spend a literal 5 minutes validating such things.
You could watch Elon's speeches at AfD. You could read HIS own words,
his interviews, etc. Don't bother with the media, go to the source.
NuSkooler wrote to boraxman <=-
What a bunch of nonse. Yes I do. You can go read every bit of what I stated from Elon himself. Step into reality people. This type of "I
don't know if it's real" nonsense is some sort of new "I dont' want to
be wrong" copout crap.
NuSkooler wrote to Gamgee <=-
...so I changed my default to CP437 vs UTF-8 since readers are borking
and to support older software. But what's interesting there is the
other bits of data: the majority of messages are comming from BBSes,
and actively maintained BBSes at that.
--|08 þ |12NuSkooler |06// |12Xibalba |08- |07"|06The place of fear|07"
Ummmm, no. For clarity, I'm using an offline reader (Multimail) to read the BBS messages. But that's actually irrelevant... see below.
I'm not sure we're even talking about the same thing.
Mystic BBS | 217 | 7015 | 160pln 33pip 24ansi | none | | Synchronet | 86 | 3669 | 68pln 10pip 8ansi | mix | | Other | 52 | 1442 | 50pln 2pip | mix | |
What matters to me, is what risk does this person pose? If the risk is that they contravene someone elses values, then so what?
Even before his DOGE days, Elon just seemed like the type who was arrogant enough to see some science/science fiction thing that someone did and, instead of learning the lesson would decide he could do it
A lof of "tech bros" give me that vibe so I don't trust them.
FWIW, it looks different now. The funny characters at the beginning of each line are gone and replaced with the pipes.
Adept wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Nobody has the right to force themselves on others, and free speech isn't a crutch to try and do that with.
But, isn't censoring unsavory thoughts and speech by definition forcing
yourself on others?
It's the same thing as saying, "I don't invite jerks to my party".
The person is welcome to say whatever they want to say; just not in any place I am, and they don't get to force me out because of some weird "freedom of speech" where they make the place awful.
Certain sorts of places stop existing when you let the jerks run the place.
If he's not banned, or told that he has to not mention those things in this place, I'm not going to go to that event, or that site. Because
it's extremely unpleasant, and I find it odd that people think we
should have to listen to all the jerks because of "free speech".
NuSkooler wrote to Gamgee <=-
Mystic BBS | 217 | 7015 | 160pln 33pip 24ansi | none | | Synchronet | 86 | 3669 | 68pln 10pip 8ansi | mix | | Other | 52 | 1442 | 50pln 2pip | mix | |
...so on. So from Mystic, 33 unique pipe signatures, 24 unique (as in users) ANSI signatures; 10 pipe, 8 ANSI from Sync, etc.
My readers shows them just fine.
Maybe you, (or anyone) can tell me why they don't show properly in
what is probably the most widely used BBS software today...
(Synchronet). Is it me, or is it "proprietary" color codes used by
a select few BBS softwares?
Could also see if there is a way to actually get support added to MultiMail for it? The source is available. SlyMail (a new offline reader by Nightfox) may already support this (though from what I remember you pretty much swear by MM and don't explore anything else these days). If it doesn't, he may be willing to add it as it already supports UTF-8 as well as ANSI display (and even both!).
Maybe you, (or anyone) can tell me why they don't show properly in what
is probably the most widely used BBS software today... (Synchronet). Is
it me, or is it "proprietary" color codes used by a select few BBS softwares?
Maybe you, (or anyone) can tell me why they don't show properly in what is probably the most widely used BBS software today... (Synchronet). Is it me, or is it "proprietary" color codes used by a select few BBS softwares?
Yes, I've added support to SlyMail to parse color codes for various BBS packages, so those should look okay in SlyMail.
NuSkooler wrote to Gamgee <=-
Maybe you, (or anyone) can tell me why they don't show properly in what
is probably the most widely used BBS software today... (Synchronet). Is it me, or is it "proprietary" color codes used by a select few BBS softwares?
I'm glad you asked!
Pipe codes have been used since Renegade, at least, so around '93? Supported by at least Mystic, Synchronet (turn them on; https://wiki.synchro.net/custom:colors), Enthrall, WWIV, Telegard, Oblivion/2, iNiQUiTY, ...
Synchronet's own color code system, as you can see, is "Ctrl-A" codes,
but can also support Celerity and PCBoard style codes.
deon wrote to Gamgee <=-
Maybe you, (or anyone) can tell me why they don't show properly in what
is probably the most widely used BBS software today... (Synchronet). Is
it me, or is it "proprietary" color codes used by a select few BBS softwares?
FWIW, I use Synchronet and they look fine to me.
Accession wrote to Gamgee <=-Ac > Extra Attribute Codes... > Renegade Pipe Codes = Yes). However,
Maybe you, (or anyone) can tell me why they don't show properly in
what is probably the most widely used BBS software today...
(Synchronet). Is it me, or is it "proprietary" color codes used by
a select few BBS softwares?
For what it's worth, you can "enable" them in Synchronet (SCFG > System
they still won
't display properly in MultiMail because MultiMail doesn't support
that. Neither does any other "offline" readers, or NNTP clients, or
sysop readers like Golded+, MsgEd, TimEd, etc.
You have to actually be logged into a BBS software that supports them
to actually see the colors those codes are attempting to produce, and yes.. quite a few BBS softwares do support them, except specific BBS software that have their own way of coloring text (ie: PCBoard,
Wildcat, WWIV, Celerity, and maybe some others, but Synchronet itself supports any of the ones I just listed).
I don't know if there is a way to support them on the BBS itself, and
then strip them when a QWK packet is made? If not, maybe a feature
request for an option to do so just for the purpose of offline readers?
Could also see if there is a way to actually get support added to MultiMail for it? The source is available. SlyMail (a new offline
reader by Nightfox) may already support this (though from what I
remember you pretty much swear by MM and don't explore anything else
these days). If it doesn't, he may be willing to add it as it already supports UTF-8 as well as ANSI display (and even both!).
Yes, it turns out that I did NOT have those additional color codes turned on, but I went in and turned them on for the FSXNet message areas... and they still don't display when reading messages on the BBS.
Interesting. They do not show for me while reading messages on the BBS.
Are you using Nightfox's "DDMsgReader" module on the SBBS system? I'm wondering if that may be the reason. Thanks.
FWIW, I use Synchronet and they look fine to me.
Interesting. They do not show for me while reading messages on the BBS.
Are you using Nightfox's "DDMsgReader" module on the SBBS system? I'm wondering if that may be the reason. Thanks.
NuSkooler wrote to boraxman <=-
On Tuesday, April 14th boraxman said...
What matters to me, is what risk does this person pose? If the risk is that they contravene someone elses values, then so what?
One of the richest humans on the planet, which a reach into the daily lives of millions and millions, whom shapes politics around the globe,
and you believe they "post no risk"?
NuSkooler wrote to Mike Powell <=-
Twas Monday, April 13th when Mike Powell said...
Even before his DOGE days, Elon just seemed like the type who was
arrogant enough to see some science/science fiction thing that someone
did and, instead of learning the lesson would decide he could do it
A lof of "tech bros" give me that vibe so I don't trust them.
100% - Read up on Peter Thiel and Curtis Yarvin -- and I mean directly, they write books, they talk, they post. These are some of the most influencial perosns in tech right now, mostly behind the scenes. The entire US cabinet is in bed with Thiel and co. All of the AI tech bros follow their mantra, which believe me, is not good for anyone but them.
I do realize they won't show when reading in an OLR like MultiMail, but wondering why they don't show in the actual BBS reading function. Unless... I do have Nightfox's "DDMsgReader" module enabled, perhaps that's the reason. Will keep banging on it, thanks.
Are you using Nightfox's "DDMsgReader" module on the SBBS system? I'm
wondering if that may be the reason. Thanks.
Not anymore.
I had a few things that werent quite right with it, and instead of debugging it, I reverted back to the original way.
NuSkooler wrote to Mike Powell <=-
100% - Read up on Peter Thiel and Curtis Yarvin -- and I mean directly, they write books, they talk, they post. These are some of the most influencial perosns in tech right now, mostly behind the scenes. The entire US cabinet is in bed with Thiel and co. All of the AI tech bros follow their mantra, which believe me, is not good for anyone but them.
Interesting. They do not show for me while reading messages on the BBS.
Are you using Nightfox's "DDMsgReader" module on the SBBS system? I'm wondering if that may be the reason. Thanks.
deon wrote to Gamgee <=-
FWIW, I use Synchronet and they look fine to me.
Interesting. They do not show for me while reading messages on the BBS.
Are you using Nightfox's "DDMsgReader" module on the SBBS system? I'm wondering if that may be the reason. Thanks.
I just tried with it and its seems to render fine too...
Nightfox wrote to Gamgee <=-
I do realize they won't show when reading in an OLR like MultiMail, but wondering why they don't show in the actual BBS reading function. Unless... I do have Nightfox's "DDMsgReader" module enabled, perhaps that's the reason. Will keep banging on it, thanks.
DDMsgReader does support those, and it should enable the color codes according to the settings in SCFG. I've tested those and I've seen it working, as far as I can tell.
Nightfox wrote to Gamgee <=-
Interesting. They do not show for me while reading messages on the BBS.
Are you using Nightfox's "DDMsgReader" module on the SBBS system? I'm wondering if that may be the reason. Thanks.
As a quick test, I posted a message on my BBS with Renegade color
codes, and I see the colors correctly when reading with DDMsgReader:
http://digitaldistortionbbs.com/screenshots/renegade_codes.png
There are many people who do, and who have, had that position and it hasn't been a disaster. There will always be people who are rich.
I fully understand why some people hate Musk, or thing he is misguided. Certaintly some ideas of his, such as the hyperloop, or the use of tunnels for cars weren't going to work out, but people do need to
I haven't heard much of Thiel, but I have heard of Curtis, and listened to an interview or two. His focus seems more political, commentary on the state of Western Civ than on technology.
I had a few things that werent quite right with it, and instead of debugging it, I reverted back to the original way.
You can always let me know if you see anything that doesn't behave as expected, and then I can try to fix it..
Yes, I realize they won't work in MultiMail, and I did NOT have the
extra codes enabled in SCFG, but I do now, and still not displaying
while reading on the BBS.
I'm wondering if using Nightfox's "DDMsgReader" module may be the
cause of them not displaying properly. Gonna see if I can remember
how to NOT use that for a minute...
I have asked the MM author a couple of things over the years, and
gotten absolute silence back as a response. Probably not likely to
get anything there.
Thanks for the reply, I'm gonna keep banging on it for a bit, until
I lose interest and wander off to something else... ;-)
* My mode of operandi when logging in and seeing the pink banners that there is mail to me, is to read it first. IE: "Scan msgs to me". Then I go back and read all new mail.
I started to notice that when I went to read all mail, it was missing messages - and I assume that my last read pointer was being set because of the read all to me, and thus anything new before the first message to me was being skipped.
* When reading all new messages to me, if I had more than 1 (eg: 3), and I replied to one of them, when I finished reading the 3rd, I then noticed I had more than 3 to read - however the additional ones were duplicates of the 1st 3.
* When reading messages and going to the next group. My laset read message number was being set for the next group, not going to the last read message in the group. (I alerted to you of this issue already).
IE: If I was reading message #5 in sub A, and then went to sub B where the last message I read was #10, it would start me of at message #5, so I was reading old messages again.
I'm wondering if using Nightfox's "DDMsgReader" module may be the cause of
them not displaying properly. Gonna see if I can remember how to NOT use
that for a minute...
If there's no option in DDMR's configuration, then it is purely based on the SCFG settings.
Accession wrote to Gamgee <=-
Yes, I realize they won't work in MultiMail, and I did NOT have the
extra codes enabled in SCFG, but I do now, and still not displaying
while reading on the BBS.
Did you restart the server?
I'm wondering if using Nightfox's "DDMsgReader" module may be the
cause of them not displaying properly. Gonna see if I can remember
how to NOT use that for a minute...
If there's no option in DDMR's configuration, then it is purely based
on the SCFG settings.
I have asked the MM author a couple of things over the years, and
gotten absolute silence back as a response. Probably not likely to
get anything there.
Bummer. Then again, the source is there if anyone else were up to the task. ;)
Thanks for the reply, I'm gonna keep banging on it for a bit, until
I lose interest and wander off to something else... ;-)
LOL. I do that far too often these days!
NuSkooler wrote to boraxman <=-
I haven't heard much of Thiel, but I have heard of Curtis, and listened
to an interview or two. His focus seems more political, commentary on
the state of Western Civ than on technology.
You should do some more listening & reading. Thiel owns Plantir, which
is spying on you *right now*. He's the "other guy" that came from
Paypal along with Musk. Both are from very well known S. African slaveholder families.
Yarvin is incredibly influencial to Thiel, JD Vance (He's the one that propped him up and made him a thing -- his "pet project" (his words)). He's "behind the scenes" because he's one of the biggest influencers in what is happening right now, directly with Thiel, Trump Admin in
general, some other tech bros like Sam Altman, etc. This is a crew that
is actively and very purposfully breaking down states so they can be grabbed and managed as "Network Cities".
All sounds like a grand conspiracy, but like you said, they do in fact talk in the open. They just don't "advertise".
This is a test with Renegade color codes. This should appear in green.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
After I went back and read my test message, I saw the same thing; I realize put a black color code at the beginning.. I meant to use the "normal" attribute code.
This is a test with Renegade color codes. This should appear in green.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ha!, I was going to make a joke this was BLACK ON BLACK ... as it showed nothing until I quoted it. That's weird.
Re: Re: Social Media (X)
By: Gamgee to Nightfox on Tue Apr 14 2026 10:38 am
|00This is a test with Renegade color codes. |02This should appear in green. |03This should appear in cyan. |04This should appear red. |09High blue |10High green |11High cyan |12High red
|04|23Nightfox
I almost forgot about Mastodon...
Mastodon is federated right? Is there some central control? I'm wary of platforms where there is undue censorship.
I think I prefer just to have a single, proper open network with free speech. Elon has done well with X in this regard. The thing with Mastodon, is that wouldn't that lead to echo chambers? Sure, maybe you can find some place which has an editorial bent that doesn't conflict with you, but thats just another echo chamber.
I don't understand the notion of forcing extreme speech on people as being a good thing.
Piss on Elon! He can go back to sucking on Trumps gerkin.
---
exist at all, which is entirely a different matter. If they had a
perfect filter that allowed them not to read anything from anybody they disliked, they would still sit in their little corner of the Internet, sweating and trembling because somewhere, somebody is posting the wrong opinion.
It's people's right to not be forced to listen to hate speech, racist speech, calls for genocide, disagreeing with people who want to 'other' everybody who's not just like them, disagreeing with disinformation, misinformation, conspiracy theory, people who are just wrong, oh, and did I mention hate speech?
I use Usenet as a case study. Try engaging in any debate on usenet, and it is crazy.
What Mill got wrong was that as described, "free speech" is exploitable by fascists for authoritarian ends.
If he's not banned, or told that he has to not mention those things in this place, I'm not going to go to that event, or that site. Because it's extremely unpleasant, and I find it odd that people think we should have to listen to all the jerks because of "free speech".There is a lot to talk about in these two paragraphs.
If being forced to put up with people like that is what people think of "free speech", then I am against free speech. And find it odd that people _want_ that sort of thing, aside from when _they_ are the misogynistic jerk.
boraxman around Wednesday, April 15th...
There are many people who do, and who have, had that position and it hasn't been a disaster. There will always be people who are rich.
Who? Example? There is a huge difference between "rich" and
Trillionaire. One shouldn't exist, unless the system is completely
broken. Which it is.
I can name various persons in this category, not a single one of them would be "not of major concern".
I mean, without Musk, we'd not be on a good path for EVs -- but they
were not his invention, he just bought the company. But Trump squashed that. What do you know, another billionaire con man. Hyperloop just
sucked up funding and disapeared (also, that was the tunnel thing).
Elon isn't an inventor. He's a rich boy that comes from a rich, bloody hands family.
You should do some more listening & reading. Thiel owns Plantir, which is spying on you *right now*. He's the "other guy" that came from Paypal along with Musk. Both are from very well known S. African slaveholder families.
Yarvin is incredibly influencial to Thiel, JD Vance (He's the one that propped him up and made him a thing -- his "pet project" (his words)). He's "behind the scenes" because he's one of the biggest influencers in what is happening right now, directly with Thiel, Trump Admin in
general, some other tech bros like Sam Altman, etc. This is a crew that
is actively and very purposfully breaking down states so they can be grabbed and managed as "Network Cities".
All sounds like a grand conspiracy, but like you said, they do in fact talk in the open. They just don't "advertise".
I don't understand the notion of forcing extreme speech on people as be good thing.
The issue I have is the sort of people who bans servers because they
have some user who is an extremist are typically extremists themselves
and therefore they get to lecture nobody as to the need of banning extremist views.
I like the BBS style approach.
It's people's right to not be forced to listen to hate speech, racist speech, calls for genocide, disagreeing with people who want to 'other' everybody who's not just like them, disagreeing with disinformation, misinformation, conspiracy theory, people who are just wrong, oh, and d mention hate speech?
Just how does X force you to listen or read anything these days?
As far as I know you can block anything you dislike, being in X doesn't force you to interact with anybody else in the platform in particular.
My hypothesis is that people complaining that they have to deal with certain opinions on a platform are not really bothered because they actually have to interact with them. What bothers them is those opinions exist at all, which is entirely a different matter. If they had a
perfect filter that allowed them not to read anything from anybody they disliked, they would still sit in their little corner of the Internet, sweating and trembling because somewhere, somebody is posting the wrong opinion.
That is a very good point.
I wish I could bring Forocoches to the discussion. It is the biggest Spanish web forum. It is geared towards cars and car mechanics, but
their off-topic section is highly popular and it is known for an
anything goes policy.
There is no algorythm there promoting posts or content. It is as vanilla as you may expect a forum to be.
It is both glorious and depresing at the same time. There are lots of moronic people mixed with people who has interesting and well argumented things to say. There you can find all the unpopular opinions that used
to be blacklisted from curated social media and their counters. I like using it as an example of what society is actually like when it is not being curtailed. It takes all the ideas they told you are extremist and held only by a minority of derranged individuals and shows you about
half of the population actually backs them.
When you move into a curated social media in which only your opinion is acceptable, you are shielded from this reality. No wonder you can't
handle different opinions when you walk outside and it turns out your ideas are not half as opular as you used to think.
Arelor wrote to The Wanderer <=-
Fascist also benefit from water. Therefore, in order to fight Fascism,
we must ban water. No matter the cost of society as a whole.
What Mill got wrong was that as described, "free speech" is exploitable by fascists for authoritarian ends.
So........ these guys are like Soros, Bloomberg, Hoffman, etc..., only financing the other side? It's OK when they do it?
Just how does X force you to listen or read anything these days?
I don't WANT it, Id like to avoid it, but freedom and modern society are sadly no longer compatible. This isn't the 1990s anymore. Australia is going the same way, and some politicians have been blunt and said that we need to crack down on freedom for social cohesion.
Piss on Elon! He can go back to sucking on Trumps gerkin.So much for the no-politics and no controversies rule.
boraxman here has already explained by somebody would prefer having to deal with "unacceptable" ideas in a free environment than deal with the opposite scenario and I think the argument is well built. In face of it
my hypothesis is the people who does not want it is people who can't manage the fact somebody, somewhere, has an opinion they don't share.
If my work can force me to sit through some "diversity" training, then yes, I'm having someones views forced on me.
That's why I only drink pure rainwater and grain alcohol.
I don't WANT it, Id like to avoid it, but freedom and modern society sadly no longer compatible. This isn't the 1990s anymore. Australia going the same way, and some politicians have been blunt and said tha need to crack down on freedom for social cohesion.
...so fascism, by definition.
If my work can force me to sit through some "diversity" training, the yes, I'm having someones views forced on me.
To redirect this a bit, this reminds me of how an upper-level person in
my company is pushing something that involves "AI".
And I'm reading it, and wondering what the heck he's talking about, because the words are meaningless. As in, I don't know if they're
talking about machine learning or LLMs, much less what these things
would actually do.
It mostly just reinforces for me that the guy is not a person with technical abilities, even if he and his buddies are making multiple millions per year.
Yet if I'm assigned to one of these projects, I'd attempt to help make it happen, even if the goals wind up being tremendously unclear and/or misguided.
I'm not suggesting we SHOULD do this, I'm saying those in power are going to implement this as a social necessity. I'm predicting what they will do, and why they will do it.
Authoritarianism more like it. Most empires need to be authoritarian to keep social order.
boraxman wrote to Arelor <=-
They say no one should be forced, but then expect us all to sit
throught their training and being indoctrinated with their ideology.
If my work can force me to sit through some "diversity" training, then yes, I'm having someones views forced on me.
NuSkooler wrote to Arelor <=-
X has and is used by top officials around the globe. Pretending it's
"just a form" is either incredibly ignorant, or intentionally side stepping the fact.
Adept wrote to Arelor <=-
The original context was people complaining about the Fediverse and
that some people would ban x servers because of y reason.
I'm not suggesting we SHOULD do this, I'm saying those in power are g to implement this as a social necessity. I'm predicting what they wi do, and why they will do it.
Gotcha, and yeah, I agree.
boraxman around Friday, April 17th...
Authoritarianism more like it. Most empires need to be authoritarian keep social order.
Human history has been mostly fascist or authoritarian, but plenty of cases where it has not (the US, for a bit, has been decent at it).
Plenty of EU that fits the bill right now. Power hungry, greedy people will always be around to try to scoop it all up for sure.
boraxman wrote to Arelor <=-
They say no one should be forced, but then expect us all to sit throught their training and being indoctrinated with their ideology.
If my work can force me to sit through some "diversity" training, the yes, I'm having someones views forced on me.
Yes, private enterprise can force people to perform certain tasks as a
provision of employment. When the government does so, we have a
different situation altogether.
Although, now, awareness training in federal jobs seems like a sticking
point. Although, again, you can pass on the government job if it's an
issue.
Our most recent administration has taken to making announcements on Twitter first.
boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
We need to adapt our framework for the modern world and close this loophole.
Companies should have no right to do this. Employment contracts which state they can do this, should be considered invalid.
I'm amazed that section 230 of the USA Communications Decency act has held up - that was a section of the code that held "online services" protected from lawsuits.
I suppose they're "too big to sue" now, or if 230 was breached, it'd just be a cost of business for a billion-dollar service.
It's people's right to not be forced to listen to hate speech, racistI agree, wholeheartedly. Who's forcing me to listen to that? If I'm
Just how does X force you to listen or read anything these days?
Unfortunately, free speech is exploitable by any group for any ends. You
boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
We need to adapt our framework for the modern world and close this loophole.
Companies should have no right to do this. Employment contracts which state they can do this, should be considered invalid.
As we all know, HR doesn't exist for the betterment of the employee,
it's to keep the company out of the courts. You'd need to remove ADA
and all employee protections to create a workplace environment where
the workplace doesn't provide behavioral guidelines while THEY PAY YOU
TO WORK.
Re: Re: Social Media
By: Mike Powell to The Wanderer on Wed Apr 15 2026 09:53 am
Unfortunately, free speech is exploitable by any group for any ends. You
Therefore it should be allowed at all costs? I'm not sure of your point.
The Wanderer wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I guess they're finding out they're not too big to be sued for some things. I agree with not holding common carriers or ISPs responsible
for data flowing through their networks, but when you run a website,
which is all twitter, meta, et al do, and they seek profit off of it,
they should be held liable for the content on it, user-generated or
not.
I've always felt like some of the concepts and distinctions of what
makes a service vs. publisher lost on the lawmakers.
boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
It's simpler to comprehend than that. Simply put, we come to
understand that our rights to freedom of speech and freedom of mind are inalienable, and therefore cannot be traded away by a contract.
The problem is that people think that as long as you sign a contract,
it is valid, but that is not the case. A contract cannot be valid if
it violates law (i.e., a contract of slavery is not valid and not enforceable)
An employment contract, which requires you to surrender freedom of mind
or freedom of speech is not enforceable, and not valid. So if the
company decides to fire you because you disagree with some ideological position, then you can have them for wrongful termination if they fire you.
Mike Powell wrote to The Wanderer <=-
Maybe don't hit reply and delete a bunch of the message before reading
it all?
boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
It's simpler to comprehend than that. Simply put, we come to understand that our rights to freedom of speech and freedom of mind a inalienable, and therefore cannot be traded away by a contract.
Inalienable in the context of government writing laws that restrict our
freedom of speech. Private enterprises are free to set whatever
requirements they want within reason and employment is at-will in most
places.
Although government employment is a sticky bit.
The problem is that people think that as long as you sign a contract, it is valid, but that is not the case. A contract cannot be valid if it violates law (i.e., a contract of slavery is not valid and not enforceable)
In the context of free speech and enterprise, they don't tell you you
can't say anything - rather they say something along the lines of can't
say anything that would harm the company's image or reputation if
attributed to an employee of the company, or something like that.
Usually with some disclaimer needed - "my opinions aren't necessarily
those of my employer", that kind of thing.
There's no law against that.
An employment contract, which requires you to surrender freedom of mi or freedom of speech is not enforceable, and not valid. So if the company decides to fire you because you disagree with some ideologica position, then you can have them for wrongful termination if they fir you.
Whether or not this is true, you'll probably still walk away with a
settlement, no admission of fault by the company and an NDA. It's
cheaper to pay out than to litigate.
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