• Re: Social Media

    From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to boraxman on Sun Apr 12 10:30:51 2026
    boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    I think I prefer just to have a single, proper open network with free speech. Elon has done well with X in this regard.

    X is not open, and certainly isn't free speech. There have been
    multiple documented cases of people being muted on X.

    Mastodon, is that wouldn't that lead to echo chambers? Sure, maybe you can find some place which has an editorial bent that doesn't conflict
    with you, but thats just another echo chamber.

    Mastodon is an open federated network - you connect to multiple
    servers, each with their own terms of service, orientation and rules.

    You have just as much chance of an echo chamber on X - more, when you
    consider your feed is manipulated by X to keep you scrolling.

    I think for public discourse, it is important that people are exposed
    to contrary ideas.

    Agreed.



    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to fusion on Sun Apr 12 10:30:51 2026
    fusion wrote to boraxman <=-

    i don't recall if it was around here (bbs scene) or elsewhere but
    someone had mentioned some of the mastodon clients that would be the
    most useful (phone) come pre-configured to ban a collection of various servers for reasons you may or may not agree with.

    the problem is you don't really get to choose..

    You don't need to use one of those mastodon clients that pre-ban
    servers, if they exist. You can use one of many clients available.



    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Adept on Sun Apr 12 10:30:51 2026
    Adept wrote to boraxman <=-

    But chatting on FSXnet is significantly more pleasant to me than elsewhere, and whether or not people consider it an echo chamber, I'd vastly prefer it over places where "engagement" means rage bait and controversy.

    This is a nice throwback to before social media, when people could
    disagree without rage.

    Here, it feels like we have at least a little more, "consider the
    people behind the screen", and thus it feels a bit more human than I
    seem to be able to get over much of the rest of the internet.

    One thing I miss about the old days are the gettogethers. Flame all you
    want on the boards, but a couple of times a year you'd get together and
    realize the person on the other side of the argument has more in common
    with you than you thought. That was part of the subculture effect of
    dial-up BBSes - most people didn't know what a modem was, let alone
    what you could do with it.



    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to The Wanderer on Sun Apr 12 10:30:51 2026
    The Wanderer wrote to boraxman <=-

    No... free speech at all costs is not healthy, and X isn't even that.
    It's free speech if Elon agrees with you (mostly), but X is now really quite well known as being a toxic shithole.

    I'm amazed that section 230 of the USA Communications Decency act has
    held up - that was a section of the code that held "online services"
    protected from lawsuits.

    It used to be that online services claimed their role as an information distributor, not a publisher. in Cubby vs. CompuServe, CompuServe
    claimed that they published content and didn't moderate, as they
    couldn't moderate every piece of information on their service.
    Additionally, since they only displayed what was posted, their role was
    an intermediary.

    Flash forward to present day, where Facebook and X manipulate feeds to
    show specific content to users, and the old 230 defense falls apart.

    I suppose they're "too big to sue" now, or if 230 was breached, it'd
    just be a cost of business for a billion-dollar service.



    ... When in doubt, predict that the trend will continue.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to boraxman on Sun Apr 12 10:30:51 2026
    boraxman wrote to The Wanderer <=-

    What do people get banned for? Is there censorship?

    Genuinely asking. I've heard people complain and leave because of what
    IS said, but I haven't heard of people leaving because they've had a particular point of view blocked. There are some extreme banned
    accounts (violence, CP, etc, which is fine)

    People get blocked for violating the "terms of service" without any
    description or recourse.


    ... All those updates, and still imperfect!
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to The Wanderer on Sun Apr 12 10:30:51 2026
    The Wanderer wrote to boraxman <=-

    It's people's right to not be forced to listen to hate speech, racist speech, calls for genocide, disagreeing with people who want to 'other' everybody who's not just like them, disagreeing with disinformation, misinformation, conspiracy theory, people who are just wrong, oh, and
    did I mention hate speech?

    I agree, wholeheartedly. Who's forcing me to listen to that? If I'm
    reading it on X, I can mute the author. The platform is going to cater
    to my political bent to keep me on the system with just enough vitriol
    to anger me - but not enough to ditch the platform.

    At no point by someone expressing their opinions do I feel forced to
    listen to it, nor do I feel that someone's opinions directly affect
    what I think.

    Nobody has the right to force themselves on others, and free speech
    isn't a crutch to try and do that with.

    But, isn't censoring unsavory thoughts and speech by definition forcing
    yourself on others?







    Are you familiar with the intolerance paradox?

    Are you familiar with https://xkcd.com/1357/ ?
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Yak Station - Some yakkin' happenin'... (21:3/233)

    ... Beware standards your own religion can't uphold
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Jegor on Sun Apr 12 10:30:51 2026
    Jegor wrote to Mike Powell <=-

    I wonder if there are any real people left on social media at all, or
    just the bot farms? At least FB's UI doesn't give me the impression
    it's intended for human beings to use.

    Bot traffic on the net as a whole reached a point where it makes up 51%
    of traffic on the internet - including web crawlers, X bots and others.



    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Apr 13 07:32:43 2026
    It used to be that online services claimed their role as an information distributor, not a publisher. in Cubby vs. CompuServe, CompuServe
    claimed that they published content and didn't moderate, as they

    That's what things were _before_ Section 230.

    It's why CompuServe _won_ the pre-Section 230 lawsuit.

    The problem was with Prodigy, where they _did_ do moderation, but something slipped through that got them sued. Incidentally, it was evidently true, but made the Wolf of Wall Street look bad, or something.

    And Congress wanted more moderation of terrible things, not less, so wanted to encourage the Prodigy model over the Compuserve one.

    Anyway, solid chance I'm just agreeing with you because I misread what you said. If so, sorry about that, but what I _think_ you're saying is a common misconception of what the law actually does (and doesn't) do, for good or ill.

    Flash forward to present day, where Facebook and X manipulate feeds to show specific content to users, and the old 230 defense falls apart.

    ...which is to say, section 230 is literally what allows them to do this and not face any legal consequences.

    I suppose they're "too big to sue" now, or if 230 was breached, it'd
    just be a cost of business for a billion-dollar service.

    ...but agreed, here, regardless. I think of section 230 goes away, it's probably fine for the big companies. Fine to the point where they're probably for it, because they have teams of lawyers, now, and this sort of thing stops new competition from creeping in.

    And probably causes problems for the Fediverse.

    Anyway, since we're talking Section 230, 230(c)(1) of the CDA says, "No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider."

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Apr 13 07:49:21 2026
    Nobody has the right to force themselves on others, and free speech isn't a crutch to try and do that with.

    But, isn't censoring unsavory thoughts and speech by definition forcing
    yourself on others?

    It's the same thing as saying, "I don't invite jerks to my party".

    The person is welcome to say whatever they want to say; just not in any place I am, and they don't get to force me out because of some weird "freedom of speech" where they make the place awful.

    Certain sorts of places stop existing when you let the jerks run the place.

    E.g., if there's some misogynistic jerk who loudly tells all the women they should dress to meet his expectations.

    If he's not banned, or told that he has to not mention those things in this place, I'm not going to go to that event, or that site. Because it's extremely unpleasant, and I find it odd that people think we should have to listen to all the jerks because of "free speech".

    If being forced to put up with people like that is what people think of "free speech", then I am against free speech. And find it odd that people _want_ that sort of thing, aside from when _they_ are the misogynistic jerk.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to The Wanderer on Tue Apr 14 01:33:48 2026
    The Wanderer wrote to boraxman <=-

    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: boraxman to The Wanderer on Sun Apr 12 2026 01:04 am

    Your statement quoted above misses the point that we're speaking
    specifically about X, and it's very clear how the platform has been bent
    I don't know and I have to judge for myself. I don't really trust other peoples opinions, because they could very well be someone that sees some

    How is one supposed to see this as anything but "That goes counter to
    my opinion and I'm not seeking out detail from credible sources?"

    This is cognitive dissonance par excellence.

    We can discuss the facts, but a statement that Elon is a "Nazi" is an intepretation. What Elon plans to do, based on that interpretation is
    just a guess. If that person is politically motivated, I do not take
    it as an informed opinion.

    I heard of this. Is this something particular to Grok, or is it an AI flaw in general? Agree it should be curtailed until it is fixed.

    This was Musk's forcing the Twitter team to make Grok "less woke". It's not a flaw in "AI", whatever that would purportedly mean.

    AI just does what its programmed to do anyway.

    The xkcd misses the point of free speech and gets it backwards. Free Speech was NOT about giving you the freedom to say what you like. The reason that Free Speech was deemed important, and as described by Mill, was that it was necessary to determine truth, correct misinformation and challenge incorrect ideas. It was not just to allow you to express

    What Mill got wrong was that as described, "free speech" is exploitable
    by fascists for authoritarian ends.

    It's exactly what we see playing out in too many places presently.

    This is heading into politics. I'll say that Mill was aware of the
    danger of bad ideas spreading, and it WOULD cause harm, but it was the
    lesser of two evils.

    I agree with Mill. Human society has run into bad consequences where
    people are not permitted to discuss things.

    I'm not aware of any malevolent regime that permitted and protected
    criticism of it. To say that they use "free speech" just doesn't
    match history at all. People were NOT free to speak.

    The argument is actually that they used bad ideas which is true. This
    is not an argument against free speech.

    Remember, the point of free speech is not "I say whatever I like".
    The point of free speech is "I get to hear whatever I might need to
    hear".


    The xkcd is referring to the people whining about being cancelled,
    which, if you want to talk cancelling, should probably be a little
    better defined as to what you mean.

    Hence why its silly. Its making an argument that people are "free to
    not listen", but then condones cancelling, ie, prevening OTHERS from
    hearing speech as well. Its Reddit tier reasoning.

    ___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

    --- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Adept on Mon Apr 13 08:58:55 2026
    Adept wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Nobody has the right to force themselves on others, and free speech isn't a crutch to try and do that with.

    But, isn't censoring unsavory thoughts and speech by definition forcing
    yourself on others?

    It's the same thing as saying, "I don't invite jerks to my party".

    The person is welcome to say whatever they want to say; just not in any place I am, and they don't get to force me out because of some weird "freedom of speech" where they make the place awful.

    Certain sorts of places stop existing when you let the jerks run the place.

    Agreed, I was speaking more about the notion of forcing others to
    modify their speech based on the claim that they were forced to listen
    to the "objectionable" party's free speech.

    With regards to the viability of spaces (like these), agreed that some
    moderation is a good thing -- for the viability of a private space.

    If he's not banned, or told that he has to not mention those things in this place, I'm not going to go to that event, or that site. Because
    it's extremely unpleasant, and I find it odd that people think we
    should have to listen to all the jerks because of "free speech".

    We can twit users, or mute them, or whatever term is used for limiting
    exposure to those people's speech. Or hit whatever button goes onto the
    next message. But, the point about preserving and promoting the venue
    still stands.




    ... UNPRISON YOUR THINK RHINO
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to deon on Tue Apr 14 15:26:16 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media (X)
    By: deon to Nightfox on Wed Apr 15 2026 07:50 am

    * My mode of operandi when logging in and seeing the pink banners that there is mail to me, is to read it first. IE: "Scan msgs to me". Then I go back and read all new mail.

    I started to notice that when I went to read all mail, it was missing messages - and I assume that my last read pointer was being set because of the read all to me, and thus anything new before the first message to me was being skipped.

    Odd; I don't think I've seen that, but if I do, I'll be able to look into it and debug it.

    * When reading all new messages to me, if I had more than 1 (eg: 3), and I replied to one of them, when I finished reading the 3rd, I then noticed I had more than 3 to read - however the additional ones were duplicates of the 1st 3.

    I've been seeing that lately every so often, and it's something I plan to look into more deeply.

    * When reading messages and going to the next group. My laset read message number was being set for the next group, not going to the last read message in the group. (I alerted to you of this issue already).

    IE: If I was reading message #5 in sub A, and then went to sub B where the last message I read was #10, it would start me of at message #5, so I was reading old messages again.

    I don't recall seeing this either, but if I see it occuring for me, I'll be able to look into it and do some debugging.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Gamgee on Tue Apr 14 18:51:22 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media (X)
    By: Gamgee to Nightfox on Tue Apr 14 2026 10:38 am

    |00This is a test with Renegade color codes. |02This should appear in green. |03This should appear in cyan. |04This should appear red. |09High blue |10High green |11High cyan |12High red

    |04|23Nightfox

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Exodus@21:1/144 to Nightfox on Tue Apr 14 22:14:48 2026
    This is a test with Renegade color codes. This should appear in green.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Ha!, I was going to make a joke this was BLACK ON BLACK ... as it showed nothing until I quoted it. That's weird.

    The rest showed fine, just not that sentence.

    ... Now in new great-tasting Grape and Watermelon flavor.

    --- Renegade v1.40/DOS
    * Origin: The Titantic BBS Telnet - ttb.rgbbs.info (21:1/144)
  • From Exodus@21:1/144 to Nightfox on Tue Apr 14 22:47:06 2026
    After I went back and read my test message, I saw the same thing; I realize put a black color code at the beginning.. I meant to use the "normal" attribute code.

    hahah ... I thought I was losing my mind. :)

    ... At last, the Eludium Q36 explosive space modulator

    --- Renegade v1.40/DOS
    * Origin: The Titantic BBS Telnet - ttb.rgbbs.info (21:1/144)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Exodus on Tue Apr 14 19:39:34 2026
    Re: Re: Renegade color codes
    By: Exodus to Nightfox on Tue Apr 14 2026 10:14 pm

    This is a test with Renegade color codes. This should appear in green.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Ha!, I was going to make a joke this was BLACK ON BLACK ... as it showed nothing until I quoted it. That's weird.

    After I went back and read my test message, I saw the same thing; I realized I put a black color code at the beginning.. I meant to use the "normal" attribute code.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to Nightfox on Tue Apr 14 21:43:14 2026
    Re: Renegade color codes
    By: Nightfox to Gamgee on Tue Apr 14 2026 06:51 pm

    Re: Re: Social Media (X)
    By: Gamgee to Nightfox on Tue Apr 14 2026 10:38 am

    |00This is a test with Renegade color codes. |02This should appear in green. |03This should appear in cyan. |04This should appear red. |09High blue |10High green |11High cyan |12High red

    |04|23Nightfox

    Strange, I'm still not seeing the colors, just the pipe codes themselves, followed by the text you wrote. Reading/writing this from within the BBS, using DDMsgReader (not offline with MultiMail).

    Not sure what else could be wrong. The extra attribute codes are enabled in the SCFG settings... Dunno.
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to boraxman on Wed Apr 15 03:16:48 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: boraxman to Khronos on Wed Apr 08 2026 12:38 am



    I almost forgot about Mastodon...

    Mastodon is federated right? Is there some central control? I'm wary of platforms where there is undue censorship.

    There is no central control but software packages themselves can be used for gatekeeping. Meaning clients might come with hardcoded blacklists or server packages can include servers which are banned by default. This is a subject that used to spark a lot of talk.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to boraxman on Wed Apr 15 03:23:55 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: boraxman to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Apr 09 2026 01:40 am


    I think I prefer just to have a single, proper open network with free speech. Elon has done well with X in this regard. The thing with Mastodon, is that wouldn't that lead to echo chambers? Sure, maybe you can find some place which has an editorial bent that doesn't conflict with you, but thats just another echo chamber.

    The point of the Fediverse is that it is like a modern reimplementation of ld school BBS. Here you call the BBS you prefer but can read from users of other BBS and send them messages from your own BBS. The idea behind the Fediverse is the same: you are active in a Fediverse node but can follow users from other nodes.

    It only becomes an echo chamber if the operator of your node is an asshat who bans other nodes because of arbitrary reasons,


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to The Wanderer on Wed Apr 15 03:27:56 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: The Wanderer to boraxman on Wed Apr 08 2026 08:55 am

    I don't understand the notion of forcing extreme speech on people as being a good thing.

    The issue I have is the sort of people who bans servers because they have some user who is an extremist are typically extremists themselves and therefore they get to lecture nobody as to the need of banning extremist views.

    I like the BBS style approach.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From fusion@21:1/616 to Arelor on Wed Apr 15 04:53:40 2026
    On 15 Apr 2026, Arelor said the following...

    exist at all, which is entirely a different matter. If they had a
    perfect filter that allowed them not to read anything from anybody they disliked, they would still sit in their little corner of the Internet, sweating and trembling because somewhere, somebody is posting the wrong opinion.

    bingo ;)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (21:1/616)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to The Wanderer on Wed Apr 15 03:44:08 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: The Wanderer to boraxman on Fri Apr 10 2026 07:09 am


    It's people's right to not be forced to listen to hate speech, racist speech, calls for genocide, disagreeing with people who want to 'other' everybody who's not just like them, disagreeing with disinformation, misinformation, conspiracy theory, people who are just wrong, oh, and did I mention hate speech?


    Just how does X force you to listen or read anything these days?

    As far as I know you can block anything you dislike, being in X doesn't force you to interact with anybody else in the platform in particular.

    My hypothesis is that people complaining that they have to deal with certain opinions on a platform are not really bothered because they actually have to interact with them. What bothers them is those opinions exist at all, which is entirely a different matter. If they had a perfect filter that allowed them not to read anything from anybody they disliked, they would still sit in their little corner of the Internet, sweating and trembling because somewhere, somebody is posting the wrong opinion.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to boraxman on Wed Apr 15 04:07:47 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: boraxman to RetroSwim on Sun Apr 12 2026 01:09 pm

    I use Usenet as a case study. Try engaging in any debate on usenet, and it is crazy.

    That is a very good point.

    I wish I could bring Forocoches to the discussion. It is the biggest Spanish web forum. It is geared towards cars and car mechanics, but their off-topic section is highly popular and it is known for an anything goes policy.

    There is no algorythm there promoting posts or content. It is as vanilla as you may expect a forum to be.

    It is both glorious and depresing at the same time. There are lots of moronic people mixed with people who has interesting and well argumented things to say. There you can find all the unpopular opinions that used to be blacklisted from curated social media and their counters. I like using it as an example of what society is actually like when it is not being curtailed. It takes all the ideas they told you are extremist and held only by a minority of derranged individuals and shows you about half of the population actually backs them.

    When you move into a curated social media in which only your opinion is acceptable, you are shielded from this reality. No wonder you can't handle different opinions when you walk outside and it turns out your ideas are not half as opular as you used to think.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to The Wanderer on Wed Apr 15 04:11:59 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: The Wanderer to boraxman on Sun Apr 12 2026 07:48 am


    What Mill got wrong was that as described, "free speech" is exploitable by fascists for authoritarian ends.


    Yeah, Fascists can benefit from free speech.

    Fascist also benefit from water. Therefore, in order to fight Fascism, we must ban water. No matter the cost of society as a whole.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to Adept on Wed Apr 15 04:26:11 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: Adept to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Apr 13 2026 07:49 am

    If he's not banned, or told that he has to not mention those things in this place, I'm not going to go to that event, or that site. Because it's extremely unpleasant, and I find it odd that people think we should have to listen to all the jerks because of "free speech".

    If being forced to put up with people like that is what people think of "free speech", then I am against free speech. And find it odd that people _want_ that sort of thing, aside from when _they_ are the misogynistic jerk.
    There is a lot to talk about in these two paragraphs.

    First things first: it is ok for a site to have people you don't like and it is ok for you to find places you do like. That much is obvious. I gravitate towards communities that I either like or help me get tasks done. It is not reasonable to expect all events, sites or communities to be welcoming towards you. There are lots of Internet places whose members I don't like and that is perfectly fine, I just don't go there.

    But, when it comes to big platforms, you don't really have the excuse that the platform is forcing you to talk to people you dislike because you can decide not to interact with people. It is not like they can walk up to you like in a physical party and yell at your face.

    boraxman here has already explained by somebody would prefer having to deal with "unacceptable" ideas in a free environment than deal with the opposite scenario and I think the argument is well built. In face of it my hypothesis is the people who does not want it is people who can't manage the fact somebody, somewhere, has an opinion they don't share.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Arelor on Thu Apr 16 01:06:49 2026

    I don't understand the notion of forcing extreme speech on people as be good thing.

    The issue I have is the sort of people who bans servers because they
    have some user who is an extremist are typically extremists themselves
    and therefore they get to lecture nobody as to the need of banning extremist views.

    I like the BBS style approach.

    I prefer the BBS style approach too. The good thing is, that a sysop has the freedom to kick someone of their BBS, but that doesn't deny that person acces to FSXNet or DoveNet or FidoNet

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Arelor on Thu Apr 16 01:08:24 2026
    It's people's right to not be forced to listen to hate speech, racist speech, calls for genocide, disagreeing with people who want to 'other' everybody who's not just like them, disagreeing with disinformation, misinformation, conspiracy theory, people who are just wrong, oh, and d mention hate speech?


    Just how does X force you to listen or read anything these days?

    As far as I know you can block anything you dislike, being in X doesn't force you to interact with anybody else in the platform in particular.

    My hypothesis is that people complaining that they have to deal with certain opinions on a platform are not really bothered because they actually have to interact with them. What bothers them is those opinions exist at all, which is entirely a different matter. If they had a
    perfect filter that allowed them not to read anything from anybody they disliked, they would still sit in their little corner of the Internet, sweating and trembling because somewhere, somebody is posting the wrong opinion.


    They say no one should be forced, but then expect us all to sit throught their training and being indoctrinated with their ideology.

    If my work can force me to sit through some "diversity" training, then yes, I'm having someones views forced on me.

    ... I'm not a complete idiot... Several parts are missing!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Arelor on Thu Apr 16 01:15:23 2026
    That is a very good point.

    I wish I could bring Forocoches to the discussion. It is the biggest Spanish web forum. It is geared towards cars and car mechanics, but
    their off-topic section is highly popular and it is known for an
    anything goes policy.

    There is no algorythm there promoting posts or content. It is as vanilla as you may expect a forum to be.

    It is both glorious and depresing at the same time. There are lots of moronic people mixed with people who has interesting and well argumented things to say. There you can find all the unpopular opinions that used
    to be blacklisted from curated social media and their counters. I like using it as an example of what society is actually like when it is not being curtailed. It takes all the ideas they told you are extremist and held only by a minority of derranged individuals and shows you about
    half of the population actually backs them.

    When you move into a curated social media in which only your opinion is acceptable, you are shielded from this reality. No wonder you can't
    handle different opinions when you walk outside and it turns out your ideas are not half as opular as you used to think.



    This is exactly what I find. People who tend to stick to their own social media echo chambers are genuinely *shocked* when they hear that other people disagree. In fact, many simply refuse to believe it. They put it down to conspiracy theories.

    This is the most depressing of all. They think that anyone who disagrees has been brainwashed by a giant conspiracy, because they cannot fathom how any human could come to that conclusion on their own. Yet it obvious to most people how they did. Even worse, you tell them that people came to those opinions because of what they saw and experienced, and they STILL refuse to believe it. They must have seen wrong. they must have had the idea implanted in their head.

    ... I don't have the time for a hobby. I have a computer.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Arelor on Wed Apr 15 06:51:21 2026
    Arelor wrote to The Wanderer <=-

    Fascist also benefit from water. Therefore, in order to fight Fascism,
    we must ban water. No matter the cost of society as a whole.

    That's why I only drink pure rainwater and grain alcohol.


    ... When in doubt, predict that the trend will continue.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From Mike Powell@21:1/175.6 to The Wanderer on Wed Apr 15 09:53:12 2026
    What Mill got wrong was that as described, "free speech" is exploitable by fascists for authoritarian ends.


    Unfortunately, free speech is exploitable by any group for any ends. You
    could just as easily substitute "communists," "socialists," "theocrats," and several other groups there in place of "fascists" and it is still correct.

    "anarchists for anarchy" would also fit.

    I see free speech as a two-way street. The listener doesn't have to listen and, if they do, they need to use their brains to filter out the garbage.

    ... "Television! Teacher, Mother, Secret Lover..." - Homer
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: Project Scorpio TEST (21:1/175.6)
  • From NuSkooler@21:1/121 to Arelor on Wed Apr 15 10:35:15 2026
    Twas Wednesday, April 15th when Arelor said...
    Just how does X force you to listen or read anything these days?

    X has and is used by top officials around the globe. Pretending it's "just a form" is either incredibly ignorant, or intentionally side stepping the fact.


    --
    |08 þ |12NuSkooler |06// |12Xibalba |08- |07"|06The place of fear|07"
    |08 þ |03xibalba|08.|03vip |08(|0344510|08/|03telnet|08, |0344511|08/|03ssh|08) |08 þ |03ENiGMA 1/2 WHQ |08| |03Phenom |08| |0367 |08| |03iMPURE |08| |03ACiDic --- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.2.0-beta (linux; x64; 22.22.2)
    * Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.vip:44510 (21:1/121)
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Arelor on Thu Apr 16 11:42:33 2026
    boraxman here has already explained by somebody would prefer having to deal with "unacceptable" ideas in a free environment than deal with the opposite scenario and I think the argument is well built. In face of it
    my hypothesis is the people who does not want it is people who can't manage the fact somebody, somewhere, has an opinion they don't share.

    The original context was people complaining about the Fediverse and that some people would ban x servers because of y reason.

    Not, "we should ban all x people from the internet".

    Anyway, I'd argue this further (and wrote something up, before deleting it), but I already want the topic to go away, and me posting more does not help with that.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to boraxman on Thu Apr 16 11:50:34 2026
    If my work can force me to sit through some "diversity" training, then yes, I'm having someones views forced on me.

    To redirect this a bit, this reminds me of how an upper-level person in my company is pushing something that involves "AI".

    And I'm reading it, and wondering what the heck he's talking about, because the words are meaningless. As in, I don't know if they're talking about machine learning or LLMs, much less what these things would actually do.

    It mostly just reinforces for me that the guy is not a person with technical abilities, even if he and his buddies are making multiple millions per year.

    Yet if I'm assigned to one of these projects, I'd attempt to help make it happen, even if the goals wind up being tremendously unclear and/or misguided.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Apr 16 11:51:46 2026
    That's why I only drink pure rainwater and grain alcohol.

    That's how the acid rain gets ya.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Adept on Fri Apr 17 01:02:11 2026
    If my work can force me to sit through some "diversity" training, the yes, I'm having someones views forced on me.

    To redirect this a bit, this reminds me of how an upper-level person in
    my company is pushing something that involves "AI".

    And I'm reading it, and wondering what the heck he's talking about, because the words are meaningless. As in, I don't know if they're
    talking about machine learning or LLMs, much less what these things
    would actually do.

    It mostly just reinforces for me that the guy is not a person with technical abilities, even if he and his buddies are making multiple millions per year.

    Yet if I'm assigned to one of these projects, I'd attempt to help make it happen, even if the goals wind up being tremendously unclear and/or misguided.

    I suspect that some people "think" they way an LLM does. In that they don't actually think about the objects and the world, but rather they rearrange words in their head to formulate a response which sounds good. I think my new boss, a director thinks like this. She can talk a lot, but it rarely concretely has to do with the reality of the situation, it sounds more someone saying what other people think they should be saying. Corporate speak... Take words, take "good" words like "AI" and "future-proof" and construct a sentence which seems apropos, and that is the thought.

    I think this technology has revealed that the ability to construct complex paragraphs, and pass the Turing test, doesn't actually require intelligence or a model of the world.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to boraxman on Thu Apr 16 08:10:43 2026
    boraxman wrote to Arelor <=-

    They say no one should be forced, but then expect us all to sit
    throught their training and being indoctrinated with their ideology.

    If my work can force me to sit through some "diversity" training, then yes, I'm having someones views forced on me.

    Yes, private enterprise can force people to perform certain tasks as a
    provision of employment. When the government does so, we have a
    different situation altogether.

    Although, now, awareness training in federal jobs seems like a sticking
    point. Although, again, you can pass on the government job if it's an
    issue.





    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to NuSkooler on Thu Apr 16 08:10:43 2026
    NuSkooler wrote to Arelor <=-

    X has and is used by top officials around the globe. Pretending it's
    "just a form" is either incredibly ignorant, or intentionally side stepping the fact.

    Our most recent administration has taken to making announcements on
    Twitter first.



    ... "The swift blade penetrates the salad."
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Adept on Thu Apr 16 08:10:43 2026
    Adept wrote to Arelor <=-
    The original context was people complaining about the Fediverse and
    that some people would ban x servers because of y reason.

    Interesting that there were BBSes that catered to political and
    cultural topics, but no one ever banned those BBSes from Fidonet back
    in the day. Users, certainly - back when feed cuts meant something,
    Fido echo moderators would kick users off of "their" echoes.



    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat Apr 18 17:57:48 2026
    On 16 Apr 2026 at 08:10a, poindexter FORTRAN pondered and said...

    boraxman wrote to Arelor <=-

    They say no one should be forced, but then expect us all to sit throught their training and being indoctrinated with their ideology.

    If my work can force me to sit through some "diversity" training, the yes, I'm having someones views forced on me.

    Yes, private enterprise can force people to perform certain tasks as a
    provision of employment. When the government does so, we have a
    different situation altogether.

    Although, now, awareness training in federal jobs seems like a sticking
    point. Although, again, you can pass on the government job if it's an
    issue.



    The can legally do so, but ethically I think this is wrong, and a gap in modern Western freedoms that need to be addressed.

    You remain a private citizen, free to believe what you want, free to form your own views, and free to make your own decisions. This freedom is a fundamantal part of being a citizen and a free-man, and the idea that you somehow "check that freedom at the door" because you walk into a private enterprise makes no sense.

    The US founders did not anticipate, and could not reasonably have foreseen, that most people would make a living in employment in the corporate world. No one during the enlightenment could have seen this, and this is a "loophole" that authoritarians can exploit.

    We need to adapt our framework for the modern world and close this loophole.

    Companies should have no right to do this. Employment contracts which state they can do this, should be considered invalid.

    ... User Error: Replace user and hit any key to continue...

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From NuSkooler@21:1/121 to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat Apr 18 11:11:45 2026
    On Thursday, April 16th poindexter FORTRAN muttered...
    Our most recent administration has taken to making announcements on Twitter first.

    Excactly! If that is the first form of comms, it's now much different than "lol it's just a private website".


    --
    |08 þ |12NuSkooler |06// |12Xibalba |08- |07"|06The place of fear|07"
    |08 þ |03xibalba|08.|03vip |08(|0344510|08/|03telnet|08, |0344511|08/|03ssh|08) |08 þ |03ENiGMA 1/2 WHQ |08| |03Phenom |08| |0367 |08| |03iMPURE |08| |03ACiDic --- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.2.0-beta (linux; x64; 22.22.2)
    * Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.vip:44510 (21:1/121)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to boraxman on Sat Apr 18 12:21:14 2026
    boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    We need to adapt our framework for the modern world and close this loophole.

    Companies should have no right to do this. Employment contracts which state they can do this, should be considered invalid.

    As we all know, HR doesn't exist for the betterment of the employee,
    it's to keep the company out of the courts. You'd need to remove ADA
    and all employee protections to create a workplace environment where
    the workplace doesn't provide behavioral guidelines while THEY PAY YOU
    TO WORK.




    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From The Wanderer@21:3/233 to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat Apr 18 15:13:57 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to The Wanderer on Sun Apr 12 2026 10:30 am

    I'm amazed that section 230 of the USA Communications Decency act has held up - that was a section of the code that held "online services" protected from lawsuits.

    It has it's upsides & downsides and probably needs a re-vamping. That's amazing that Compuserve was found not liable because they were too lazy and/or cheap to moderate.

    I suppose they're "too big to sue" now, or if 230 was breached, it'd just be a cost of business for a billion-dollar service.

    I guess they're finding out they're not too big to be sued for some things. I agree with not holding common carriers or ISPs responsible for data flowing through their networks, but when you run a website, which is all twitter, meta, et al do, and they seek profit off of it, they should be held liable for the content on it, user-generated or not.

    I've always felt like some of the concepts and distinctions of what makes a service vs. publisher lost on the lawmakers.
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Yak Station - Some yakkin' happenin'... (21:3/233)
  • From The Wanderer@21:3/233 to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat Apr 18 15:19:56 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to The Wanderer on Sun Apr 12 2026 10:30 am

    It's people's right to not be forced to listen to hate speech, racist
    I agree, wholeheartedly. Who's forcing me to listen to that? If I'm

    I think you'd have to go back to what I was responding to - your quote and what you're saying is missing the context.
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Yak Station - Some yakkin' happenin'... (21:3/233)
  • From The Wanderer@21:3/233 to Arelor on Sat Apr 18 15:40:10 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: Arelor to The Wanderer on Wed Apr 15 2026 03:44 am

    Just how does X force you to listen or read anything these days?

    You've missed the context, that's not what was said.
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Yak Station - Some yakkin' happenin'... (21:3/233)
  • From The Wanderer@21:3/233 to Mike Powell on Sat Apr 18 15:59:17 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: Mike Powell to The Wanderer on Wed Apr 15 2026 09:53 am

    Unfortunately, free speech is exploitable by any group for any ends. You

    Therefore it should be allowed at all costs? I'm not sure of your point.
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Yak Station - Some yakkin' happenin'... (21:3/233)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Apr 19 13:23:22 2026
    boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    We need to adapt our framework for the modern world and close this loophole.

    Companies should have no right to do this. Employment contracts which state they can do this, should be considered invalid.

    As we all know, HR doesn't exist for the betterment of the employee,
    it's to keep the company out of the courts. You'd need to remove ADA
    and all employee protections to create a workplace environment where
    the workplace doesn't provide behavioral guidelines while THEY PAY YOU
    TO WORK.



    It's simpler to comprehend than that. Simply put, we come to understand that our rights to freedom of speech and freedom of mind are inalienable, and therefore cannot be traded away by a contract.

    The problem is that people think that as long as you sign a contract, it is valid, but that is not the case. A contract cannot be valid if it violates law (i.e., a contract of slavery is not valid and not enforceable)

    An employment contract, which requires you to surrender freedom of mind or freedom of speech is not enforceable, and not valid. So if the company decides to fire you because you disagree with some ideological position, then you can have them for wrongful termination if they fire you.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Mike Powell@21:1/175.6 to The Wanderer on Sun Apr 19 00:22:18 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: Mike Powell to The Wanderer on Wed Apr 15 2026 09:53 am

    Unfortunately, free speech is exploitable by any group for any ends. You

    Therefore it should be allowed at all costs? I'm not sure of your point.

    No you are complaining about missing context in other responses to you but then
    deleted what all else I said from my response... you know, about it being a two
    way street and the person listening needs to know how to filter out garbage (rather than having a government that infringes upon free speech)?

    Maybe don't hit reply and delete a bunch of the message before reading it all?

    --- ScorpioWeb v0.31a (Linux/x86_64)
    * Origin: Project Scorpio TEST (21:1/175.6)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to The Wanderer on Sun Apr 19 10:15:01 2026
    The Wanderer wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    I guess they're finding out they're not too big to be sued for some things. I agree with not holding common carriers or ISPs responsible
    for data flowing through their networks, but when you run a website,
    which is all twitter, meta, et al do, and they seek profit off of it,
    they should be held liable for the content on it, user-generated or
    not.

    All you'd need to do these days is fly to Mar Al Lago for a paid
    sit-down, and all of a sudden, things would be OK.

    If not, you'd get slapped with a fine that would equal a rounding error
    in your financials.

    I've always felt like some of the concepts and distinctions of what
    makes a service vs. publisher lost on the lawmakers.

    After hearing lawmakers "grilling" Zuckerberg - one of them getting
    technical support on his iPhone from a social media exec, it's pretty
    clear that they have no idea about the technologies they affect.



    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to boraxman on Sun Apr 19 10:15:01 2026
    boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    It's simpler to comprehend than that. Simply put, we come to
    understand that our rights to freedom of speech and freedom of mind are inalienable, and therefore cannot be traded away by a contract.

    Inalienable in the context of government writing laws that restrict our
    freedom of speech. Private enterprises are free to set whatever
    requirements they want within reason and employment is at-will in most
    places.

    Although government employment is a sticky bit.


    The problem is that people think that as long as you sign a contract,
    it is valid, but that is not the case. A contract cannot be valid if
    it violates law (i.e., a contract of slavery is not valid and not enforceable)

    In the context of free speech and enterprise, they don't tell you you
    can't say anything - rather they say something along the lines of can't
    say anything that would harm the company's image or reputation if
    attributed to an employee of the company, or something like that.
    Usually with some disclaimer needed - "my opinions aren't necessarily
    those of my employer", that kind of thing.

    There's no law against that.


    An employment contract, which requires you to surrender freedom of mind
    or freedom of speech is not enforceable, and not valid. So if the
    company decides to fire you because you disagree with some ideological position, then you can have them for wrongful termination if they fire you.

    Whether or not this is true, you'll probably still walk away with a
    settlement, no admission of fault by the company and an NDA. It's
    cheaper to pay out than to litigate.





    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Mike Powell on Sun Apr 19 10:15:01 2026
    Mike Powell wrote to The Wanderer <=-

    Maybe don't hit reply and delete a bunch of the message before reading
    it all?

    Fidonet had two rules in Policy4 - whether they followed them over the
    years is debateable.

    1. Don't be excessively annoying.
    2. Don't be excessively annoyed.

    It's a great, minimalist approach to social interaction when you think
    about it.



    ... Fax is the most popular method of communication.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Apr 20 21:09:10 2026
    boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    It's simpler to comprehend than that. Simply put, we come to understand that our rights to freedom of speech and freedom of mind a inalienable, and therefore cannot be traded away by a contract.

    Inalienable in the context of government writing laws that restrict our
    freedom of speech. Private enterprises are free to set whatever
    requirements they want within reason and employment is at-will in most
    places.

    Although government employment is a sticky bit.


    Yes, I know what it IS now. I'm describing how it OUGHT to be.

    Private enterprise should not be permitted to set requirements on employment that infringe upon your free speech. Your speech should only factor into the employment contract, if it undermined or affects your ability to deliver the services required.

    Private enterprise is not some alternative universe. It operates within the nation, and therefore the rights and privileges it citizens have, remain in place in the private enterprise sphere.

    The problem is that people think that as long as you sign a contract, it is valid, but that is not the case. A contract cannot be valid if it violates law (i.e., a contract of slavery is not valid and not enforceable)

    In the context of free speech and enterprise, they don't tell you you
    can't say anything - rather they say something along the lines of can't
    say anything that would harm the company's image or reputation if
    attributed to an employee of the company, or something like that.
    Usually with some disclaimer needed - "my opinions aren't necessarily
    those of my employer", that kind of thing.

    There's no law against that.


    Speech which either directly defames or undermines the company (ie, "Don't buy from Company X", or speech which harms the company is definately cause for dismissal, as it impacts the contract entered.

    However, "harm reputation", would have to be a direct harm, that is, you are speaking on behalf of the company and harm its image, or you say something which undermines it. However, what if you say something, in private, which has nothing at all to do with your contract of employment, an an activist then lobbies the company to fire you?

    In this case, the company has no recourse, IMO, against the employee as the employee does not sign away their rights to free speech. IT is the activist who is lobbying the company which is causing the harm, and in this case, the company should have the right to take legal action against the activist in forcing or coercing the company to exercise a denial of its employees rights.

    This should deal with the problem. Is someone trying to get you fired? They get SUED by your employer. If the state recognises that employment contracts cannot negate free speech, then the company now has an argument for legal action against such activists.

    For me, this is win-win. People are free to disseminate ideas, and those who seek to deny them their rights are actually stopped.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Apr 20 21:10:01 2026
    An employment contract, which requires you to surrender freedom of mi or freedom of speech is not enforceable, and not valid. So if the company decides to fire you because you disagree with some ideologica position, then you can have them for wrongful termination if they fir you.

    Whether or not this is true, you'll probably still walk away with a
    settlement, no admission of fault by the company and an NDA. It's
    cheaper to pay out than to litigate.


    If that is the arrangement they agree upon, then fine.

    ... Kilometers are shorter than miles. Save gas, take your trip in kilometers

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to NuSkooler on Mon Apr 20 16:08:06 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: NuSkooler to Arelor on Wed Apr 15 2026 10:35 am

    Twas Wednesday, April 15th when Arelor said...
    Just how does X force you to listen or read anything these days?

    X has and is used by top officials around the globe.

    I am aware but that is orthogonal to my question.



    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to Adept on Mon Apr 20 16:10:28 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: Adept to Arelor on Thu Apr 16 2026 11:42 am


    The original context was people complaining about the Fediverse and that some people would ban x servers because of y reason.

    Not, "we should ban all x people from the internet".

    Agreed, but my theory is the "y" in "y reason" is certain administrators want to ban all x people from the internet (and I dare say from existence).


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Apr 20 16:23:53 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to boraxman on Sat Apr 18 2026 12:21 pm


    As we all know, HR doesn't exist for the betterment of the employee,
    it's to keep the company out of the courts. You'd need to remove ADA
    and all employee protections to create a workplace environment where
    the workplace doesn't provide behavioral guidelines while THEY PAY YOU
    TO WORK.


    The whole idea a company needs to provide behavioral guidelines in such a way that it makes a significant cut in your workhours is absolutely bonkers IMO.

    Doctors here used to pay me in order to complete such courses in their name and I can assure you most workplace behavior courses are a scam in order to stuff the pockets of the organizations giving them. More often than not they try to train employees into interacting with compliance departments who serve no purpose.

    In Spain those courses are usually paid with tax money, at which point it becomes a serious issue because the government is wasting money in something which is not needed, and that is before we start considering whether it contains propaganda or not.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to The Wanderer on Mon Apr 20 16:27:25 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: The Wanderer to Arelor on Sat Apr 18 2026 03:40 pm

    By: Arelor to The Wanderer on Wed Apr 15 2026 03:44 am

    Just how does X force you to listen or read anything these days?

    You've missed the context, that's not what was said.

    The argument is pretty much that Twitter sucks because it has awful people in it AND it sucks to have to interact with that people.

    Therefore I think it is legit to ask in which way you are forced to read or follow anybody, because if you are not being forced to interact with those awful people the whole argument grows weak.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From NuSkooler@21:1/121 to Arelor on Mon Apr 20 17:18:04 2026
    Twas Monday, April 20th when Arelor said...
    I am aware but that is orthogonal to my question.

    No, it's not.

    Your claim is "No one is forcing you to listen to official White House statements".


    --
    |08 þ |12NuSkooler |06// |12Xibalba |08- |07"|06The place of fear|07"
    |08 þ |03xibalba|08.|03vip |08(|0344510|08/|03telnet|08, |0344511|08/|03ssh|08) |08 þ |03ENiGMA 1/2 WHQ |08| |03Phenom |08| |0367 |08| |03iMPURE |08| |03ACiDic --- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.3.0-beta (linux; x64; 22.22.2)
    * Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.vip:44510 (21:1/121)
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Arelor on Tue Apr 21 06:42:54 2026
    Agreed, but my theory is the "y" in "y reason" is certain administrators want to ban all x people from the internet (and I dare say from existence).

    Why would that matter?

    I mean, if they're passing laws, forcing whatever on people, but when the extent of their power is a Fediverse _server_, and they're not even here?

    Given how much people talk about banning x or y in the non-digital world where it does not impact them, it would _surprise_ me if your theory did not have at least one case of being true. Probably regardless of which common "y reason" you're talking about, whether you are for or against that reason.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From John Richards to NuSkooler on Tue Apr 21 06:05:36 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: NuSkooler to Arelor on Mon Apr 20 2026 05:18 pm

    Twas Monday, April 20th when Arelor said...
    I am aware but that is orthogonal to my question.

    No, it's not.

    Your claim is "No one is forcing you to listen to official White House statements".


    His claim is valid. No one, other than yourself, is forcing you to watch or read anything. Just because it is being broadcast on all normal broadcast channels simultaneously, does not mean you have to watch/ listen/ read it. I watch no normal broadcast channels unless there is something specific I desire to see. Most of those I can watch on a re-stream online. My choice. If your psychological state requires you to watch, read, or listen to all things that all elected officials post/say, then that is on you, not on the officials or the networks. No one is forcing you. The last official Presidential address I watched was Richard Nixon resigning. Ever since I either change to a streaming service, a movie channel, or just leave the room if someone else is watching.
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Arelor on Wed Apr 22 00:13:47 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to boraxman on Sat Apr 18 2026 12:21 pm


    As we all know, HR doesn't exist for the betterment of the employee,
    it's to keep the company out of the courts. You'd need to remove ADA
    and all employee protections to create a workplace environment where
    the workplace doesn't provide behavioral guidelines while THEY PAY YOU
    TO WORK.


    The whole idea a company needs to provide behavioral guidelines in such
    a way that it makes a significant cut in your workhours is absolutely bonkers IMO.

    Doctors here used to pay me in order to complete such courses in their name and I can assure you most workplace behavior courses are a scam in order to stuff the pockets of the organizations giving them. More often than not they try to train employees into interacting with compliance departments who serve no purpose.

    In Spain those courses are usually paid with tax money, at which point it becomes a serious issue because the government is wasting money in something which is not needed, and that is before we start considering whether it contains propaganda or not.



    Sage Sharp gives courses on enforcing Code of Conducts for software projects at $350 a pop. Utter rort. Create some needless code, then have companies waste resources enforcing it.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From NuSkooler@21:1/121 to John Richards on Tue Apr 21 10:39:43 2026
    On Tuesday, April 21st John Richards was heard saying...
    His claim is valid. No one, other than yourself, is forcing you to watch or read anything. Just because it is being broadcast on all normal broadcast channels simultaneously, does not mean you have to watch/ listen/ read it. I watch no normal broadcast channels unless there is something specific I desire to see. Most of those I can watch on a re-stream online. My choice. If your psychological state requires you to watch, read, or listen to all things that all elected officials post/say, then that is on you, not on the officials or the networks. No one is forcing you. The last official Presidential address I watched was Richard Nixon resigning. Ever since I either change to a streaming service, a movie channel, or just leave the room if someone else is watching.

    Oh please, this is about as childish as you can get. Yes, we're all aware no one is physically forcing anyone to do pretty much anything. Congrats on burrying your head in the sand?

    Officials running the country put out official statements, and now do so via 'X' or 'Truth Social'. Those statements affect your dailyi life, including laws which "akcually...since we're doing that", matter to you. Your ignorance doesn't hold up in court.


    --
    |08 þ |12NuSkooler |06// |12Xibalba |08- |07"|06The place of fear|07"
    |08 þ |03xibalba|08.|03vip |08(|0344510|08/|03telnet|08, |0344511|08/|03ssh|08) |08 þ |03ENiGMA 1/2 WHQ |08| |03Phenom |08| |0367 |08| |03iMPURE |08| |03ACiDic --- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.3.0-beta (linux; x64; 22.22.2)
    * Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.vip:44510 (21:1/121)
  • From fusion@21:1/616 to NuSkooler on Tue Apr 21 13:08:13 2026
    On 21 Apr 2026, NuSkooler said the following...

    Officials running the country put out official statements, and now do so via 'X' or 'Truth Social'. Those statements affect your dailyi life, including laws which "akcually...since we're doing that", matter to you. Your ignorance doesn't hold up in court.

    perhaps this isn't the correct message network for this conversation anymore

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (21:1/616)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to NuSkooler on Tue Apr 21 13:19:14 2026
    NuSkooler wrote to John Richards <=-

    On Tuesday, April 21st John Richards was heard saying...
    His claim is valid. No one, other than yourself, is forcing you to watch or read anything. Just because it is being broadcast on all normal broadcast channels simultaneously, does not mean you have to watch/ listen/ read it. I watch no normal broadcast channels unless there is something specific I desire to see. Most of those I can watch on a re-stream online. My choice. If your psychological state requires you to watch, read, or listen to all things that all elected officials post/say, then that is on you, not on the officials or the networks. No one is forcing you. The last official Presidential address I watched was Richard Nixon resigning. Ever since I either change to a streaming service, a movie channel, or just leave the room if someone else is watching.

    Oh please, this is about as childish as you can get. Yes, we're all
    aware no one is physically forcing anyone to do pretty much anything. Congrats on burrying your head in the sand?

    Officials running the country put out official statements, and now do
    so via 'X' or 'Truth Social'. Those statements affect your dailyi life, including laws which "akcually...since we're doing that", matter to
    you. Your ignorance doesn't hold up in court.

    Would you mind stopping with the political garbage? It's a known rule
    in here, and you've been asked before, recently.



    ... "I'm a lawyer." "Honest?" "No, the regular kind."
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From NuSkooler@21:1/121 to Gamgee on Tue Apr 21 12:45:54 2026
    Twas Tuesday, April 21st when Gamgee said...
    Would you mind stopping with the political garbage? It's a known rule in here, and you've been asked before, recently.

    Yall want to be the last word eh? I'm just replying. Oh I know the rules, I've been here since day 1, thanks for the tip.

    fsxNet really has become FidoNet proper. Super unfortunate.

    --
    |08 þ |12NuSkooler |06// |12Xibalba |08- |07"|06The place of fear|07"
    |08 þ |03xibalba|08.|03vip |08(|0344510|08/|03telnet|08, |0344511|08/|03ssh|08) |08 þ |03ENiGMA 1/2 WHQ |08| |03Phenom |08| |0367 |08| |03iMPURE |08| |03ACiDic --- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.3.0-beta (linux; x64; 22.22.2)
    * Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.vip:44510 (21:1/121)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to NuSkooler on Tue Apr 21 21:11:42 2026
    NuSkooler wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Would you mind stopping with the political garbage? It's a known rule
    in here, and you've been asked before, recently.

    Yall want to be the last word eh?

    No, I stopped participating in your baiting quite a ways back.

    I'm just replying.

    Yeah, you're completely innocent. "It's not my fault, they started it!"

    Oh I know the rules, I've been here since day 1, thanks for the tip.

    Glad to help.

    fsxNet really has become FidoNet proper. Super unfortunate.

    Well, you're one of the biggest contributors to that, lately. So, stop.



    ... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to NuSkooler on Wed Apr 22 04:21:21 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: NuSkooler to Arelor on Mon Apr 20 2026 05:18 pm

    Twas Monday, April 20th when Arelor said...
    I am aware but that is orthogonal to my question.

    No, it's not.

    Your claim is "No one is forcing you to listen to official White House statements".

    Newsflash:

    Nobody is forcing you to listen to official White House statements.

    I am very sure I have never been forced to read the Spanish BOE or to listen to Pedro Sánchez or Congress.

    But nevertheless if you want to listen to White House tweets then I fail to understand how you are been forced to read anything else in Twitter.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Arelor on Wed Apr 22 12:19:13 2026
    Newsflash:

    I eagerly await for this topic to die, but this does remind me of another news-related thing I tend to do.

    And it's that I read a physical newspaper backwards.

    I imagine lots of you haven't touched one in a while, but the idea is that the further you get into the paper, the more likely that it's, "this is helpful or interesting info" and the less likely it's, "this is attention-grabbing news".

    I find the papers to be significantly better that way. And, with all the terrible news waiting up front, I'll likely learn about anything important because it'll come up _somewhere_.

    It's kind of anti-standard-algorithm in how to read things, but I find it to get me a lot more valuable info than the 20th article on whatever stupid thing some stupid politician is doing.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From The Wanderer@21:3/233 to Mike Powell on Thu Apr 23 10:11:03 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: Mike Powell to The Wanderer on Sun Apr 19 2026 12:22 am

    No you are complaining about missing context in other responses to you but then deleted what all else I said from my response... you know, about it being a two way street and the person listening needs to know how to filter out garbage (rather than having a government that infringes upon free speech)?

    Yes, it was pointless and no, it's not a two-way street.

    You push disinformation, misinformation, lies, propaganda and hate on an ignorant audience, there's no 2nd direction there. Some countries have fallen completely off the radar education-wise.

    Maybe don't hit reply and delete a bunch of the message before reading it all?

    Yeth mathtuh.
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Yak Station - Some yakkin' happenin'... (21:3/233)
  • From The Wanderer@21:3/233 to Arelor on Thu Apr 23 10:22:00 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: Arelor to The Wanderer on Mon Apr 20 2026 04:27 pm

    The argument is pretty much that Twitter sucks because it has awful people in it AND it sucks to have to interact with that people.
    Therefore I think it is legit to ask in which way you are forced to read or follow anybody, because if you are not being forced to interact with those awful people the whole argument grows weak.

    You can't possibly be asking in any sort of genuine fashion unless you have never heard of their algorithms and how they work.

    You go to twitter and try to get started you'll have Elon and devisive crap thrown in your face often, whether you've asked for it or not.

    Nobody says you're going to have to interact with them, but they're forcing their interactions upon you.
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Yak Station - Some yakkin' happenin'... (21:3/233)
  • From NuSkooler@21:1/121 to The Wanderer on Thu Apr 23 13:29:15 2026
    Twas Thursday, April 23rd when The Wanderer said...
    You go to twitter and try to get started you'll have Elon and devisive crap thrown in your face often, whether you've asked for it or not.

    And of course, this type of stuff, too!

    https://en.democraticunderground.org/100221186209

    While at the same time, re-inviting all the actual self-proclaimed fascists. Neat.
    --
    |08 þ |12NuSkooler |06// |12Xibalba |08- |07"|06The place of fear|07"
    |08 þ |03xibalba|08.|03vip |08(|0344510|08/|03telnet|08, |0344511|08/|03ssh|08) |08 þ |03ENiGMA 1/2 WHQ |08| |03Phenom |08| |0367 |08| |03iMPURE |08| |03ACiDic --- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.3.0-beta (linux; x64; 22.22.2)
    * Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.vip:44510 (21:1/121)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to NuSkooler on Thu Apr 23 22:10:11 2026
    NuSkooler wrote to The Wanderer <=-

    You go to twitter and try to get started you'll have Elon and devisive crap thrown in your face often, whether you've asked for it or not.

    And of course, this type of stuff, too!

    https://en.democraticunderground.org/100221186209

    While at the same time, re-inviting all the actual self-proclaimed fascists. Neat.

    How many times must you be asked to stop with the political garbage?

    You said previously that you know the rules... but you continue to do
    it. Why?



    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From John Richards to Gamgee on Fri Apr 24 04:29:20 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: Gamgee to NuSkooler on Tue Apr 21 2026 01:19 pm

    I, for one, am done. Sorry to have been in violation.
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to The Wanderer on Fri Apr 24 07:23:50 2026
    The Wanderer wrote to Arelor <=-

    Nobody says you're going to have to interact with them, but they're forcing their interactions upon you.

    If only there were a long form social network without commercial
    advertisements that allowed for subject, sender, or chronological
    sorting! Even better if it organized messages into topic-specific areas
    so you could cater your own experience on the platform.

    We got it right.

    One thing I like about the fediverse is being able to go back to a
    chronological sort. If you haven't looked at it, it's definitely worth
    a look.



    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From NuSkooler@21:1/121 to Gamgee on Fri Apr 24 09:32:23 2026
    On Thursday, April 23rd Gamgee said...
    You go to twitter and try to get started you'll have Elon and
    devisive
    crap thrown in your face often, whether you've asked for it or not.
    And of course, this type of stuff, too! https://en.democraticunderground.org/100221186209
    How many times must you be asked to stop with the political garbage?
    You said previously that you know the rules... but you continue to do it. Why?

    It's cute that you only respond to me, but not the original posters. I suppose it's that I don't respect you, since you're a constant forum warrior jerk?

    --
    |08 þ |12NuSkooler |06// |12Xibalba |08- |07"|06The place of fear|07"
    |08 þ |03xibalba|08.|03vip |08(|0344510|08/|03telnet|08, |0344511|08/|03ssh|08) |08 þ |03ENiGMA 1/2 WHQ |08| |03Phenom |08| |0367 |08| |03iMPURE |08| |03ACiDic --- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.4.0-beta (linux; x64; 22.22.2)
    * Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.vip:44510 (21:1/121)
  • From NuSkooler@21:1/121 to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Apr 24 09:33:39 2026
    On Friday, April 24th poindexter FORTRAN was heard saying...
    One thing I like about the fediverse is being able to go back to a chronological sort. If you haven't looked at it, it's definitely worth a look.

    It is quite refreshing. "Control your own algorithm" vs "What does the Zuck machine thing you need to see?"


    --
    |08 þ |12NuSkooler |06// |12Xibalba |08- |07"|06The place of fear|07"
    |08 þ |03xibalba|08.|03vip |08(|0344510|08/|03telnet|08, |0344511|08/|03ssh|08) |08 þ |03ENiGMA 1/2 WHQ |08| |03Phenom |08| |0367 |08| |03iMPURE |08| |03ACiDic --- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.4.0-beta (linux; x64; 22.22.2)
    * Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.vip:44510 (21:1/121)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to NuSkooler on Fri Apr 24 12:47:52 2026
    NuSkooler wrote to Gamgee <=-

    And of course, this type of stuff, too! https://en.democraticunderground.org/100221186209

    How many times must you be asked to stop with the political garbage?
    You said previously that you know the rules... but you continue to do
    it. Why?

    It's cute that you only respond to me, but not the original posters.

    It's YOU that keeps it going, and YOU that has to keep injecting
    politics into everything you say. That's why.

    suppose it's that I don't respect you, since you're a constant forum warrior jerk?

    I couldn't care less if you "respect" me, or not. But it's that kind of
    talk that is *ALSO* against the rules of fsxNet.

    Please start following the rules.


    ... I'd love to help you out. Which way did you come in?
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From MIKE POWELL@21:1/175.6 to THE WANDERER on Fri Apr 24 15:03:00 2026
    No you are complaining about missing context in other responses to you b then deleted what all else I said from my response... you know, about it being a two way street and the person listening needs to know how to filter out garbage (rather than having a government that infringes upon free speech)?

    Yes, it was pointless and no, it's not a two-way street.

    You push disinformation, misinformation, lies, propaganda and hate on an igno

    So, after getting on me for supposedly trying to control free speech, that
    is exactly what you want?

    You are correct there, that makes this discussion pretty pointless. I
    doubt you will find many/any here who agree or would defend that.

    Free speech is a two-way street. If you are too dumb to filter stuff out
    that is not everyone else's problem.

    Yeth mathtuh.

    I am not the one arguing for curtailing free speech... so, in this
    scenario, I am not the one arguing for a "mathtuh" to control us all.

    ---
    þ BgNet 1.0á12 ÷ RAW: Port 27 / Telnet:26 / ftelnet:80

    --- Scorpio BBS
    * Origin: (21:1/175.6)
  • From NuSkooler@21:1/121 to Gamgee on Fri Apr 24 12:40:41 2026
    On Friday, April 24th Gamgee said...
    It's YOU that keeps it going, and YOU that has to keep injecting politics into everything you say. That's why.

    Let's see, I responded to a thread about Elon Musk with information on Elon Musk. Perhaps we should define what "politics" are, since you seem to think anything you disagree with falls into that category. Last I checked, X is a private company, and Elon Musk isn't a political representative.

    politics /pOl2--t-ks/; noun:
    The art or science of government or governing, especially the governing of a political entity, such as a nation, and the administration and control of its internal and external affairs.

    Oh, or is X conviently a political platform again in this context?

    --
    |08 þ |12NuSkooler |06// |12Xibalba |08- |07"|06The place of fear|07"
    |08 þ |03xibalba|08.|03vip |08(|0344510|08/|03telnet|08, |0344511|08/|03ssh|08) |08 þ |03ENiGMA 1/2 WHQ |08| |03Phenom |08| |0367 |08| |03iMPURE |08| |03ACiDic --- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.4.0-beta (linux; x64; 22.22.2)
    * Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.vip:44510 (21:1/121)
  • From The Wanderer@21:3/233 to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Apr 24 12:21:38 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to The Wanderer on Fri Apr 24 2026 07:23 am

    One thing I like about the fediverse is being able to go back to a chronological sort. If you haven't looked at it, it's definitely worth a look.

    I've been part of the fediverse for years! It's got a lot going for it and keeps getting better.

    The one advantage that it has in this particular era is usability from mobile devices. I do like ye olde and ye newey BBSes, but I haven't yet seen a real usable way of using it from mobile... nor would I really want to, I don't think.
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Yak Station - Some yakkin' happenin'... (21:3/233)
  • From The Wanderer@21:3/233 to MIKE POWELL on Fri Apr 24 12:29:10 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: MIKE POWELL to THE WANDERER on Fri Apr 24 2026 03:03 pm

    So, after getting on me for supposedly trying to control free speech, that is exactly what you want?

    Que?

    Free speech is a two-way street. If you are too dumb to filter stuff out that is not everyone else's problem.

    And yet, look around you. It is exactly everyone's problem. You can keep claiming it, but no, free speech isn't a two-way street.

    "If you are too dumb"... There's a lot to learn there, isn't there?

    Yeth mathtuh.
    I am not the one arguing for curtailing free speech... so, in this scenario, I am not the one arguing for a "mathtuh" to control us all.

    Mike, you can't seem to stick to the message. You were pointlessly bossy because you believe with your heart & soul that you're right and people better bow down before you. I responded. Stick to the message.

    Or don't.
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Yak Station - Some yakkin' happenin'... (21:3/233)
  • From NuSkooler@21:1/121 to The Wanderer on Fri Apr 24 14:07:43 2026
    Twas Friday, April 24th when The Wanderer said...
    I've been part of the fediverse for years! It's got a lot going for it and keeps getting better.
    The one advantage that it has in this particular era is usability from mobile devices. I do like ye olde and ye newey BBSes, but I haven't yet seen a real usable way of using it from mobile... nor would I really want to, I don't think.

    ENiGMA 1/2 BBS just "shipped" ActivityPub/Fediverse support. Seems thus far to fit in with BBS's quite well. I've only added the bread and butter, but it seems like there are some great opportunities to add some "BBS extentions" that boards could use to interop with (sorta like FTN ofc, just another one on the pile...)

    Would love more testers - hop on Xibalba or clone the repo and make it your own

    --
    |08 þ |12NuSkooler |06// |12Xibalba |08- |07"|06The place of fear|07"
    |08 þ |03xibalba|08.|03vip |08(|0344510|08/|03telnet|08, |0344511|08/|03ssh|08) |08 þ |03ENiGMA 1/2 WHQ |08| |03Phenom |08| |0367 |08| |03iMPURE |08| |03ACiDic --- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.4.0-beta (linux; x64; 22.22.2)
    * Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.vip:44510 (21:1/121)
  • From NuSkooler@21:1/121 to The Wanderer on Fri Apr 24 14:10:17 2026
    On Friday, April 24th The Wanderer said...
    And yet, look around you. It is exactly everyone's problem. You can keep claiming it, but no, free speech isn't a two-way street.

    Free speech has a lot in relationship with the Paradox of Tolerance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance


    Yes, you can think and say whatever you want. Yes, there can still be reasonable limits on such speech and still remain "free speech"; Yes, the lines are alwasy grey.


    --
    |08 þ |12NuSkooler |06// |12Xibalba |08- |07"|06The place of fear|07"
    |08 þ |03xibalba|08.|03vip |08(|0344510|08/|03telnet|08, |0344511|08/|03ssh|08) |08 þ |03ENiGMA 1/2 WHQ |08| |03Phenom |08| |0367 |08| |03iMPURE |08| |03ACiDic --- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.4.0-beta (linux; x64; 22.22.2)
    * Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.vip:44510 (21:1/121)
  • From Mike Powell@21:1/175.6 to The Wanderer on Fri Apr 24 21:20:22 2026

    So, after getting on me for supposedly trying to control free speech, that
    is exactly what you want?

    Que?

    Memory problem much?

    Yeth mathtuh.
    I am not the one arguing for curtailing free speech... so, in this scenario, I am not the one arguing for a "mathtuh" to control us all.

    Mike, you can't seem to stick to the message. You were pointlessly bossy because you believe with your heart & soul that you're right and people better bow down before you. I responded. Stick to the message.

    You are the with the memory problem that you seem real proud of showing of. Please go fuck yourself.



    --- ScorpioWeb v0.32a (Linux/x86_64)
    * Origin: Project Scorpio TEST (21:1/175.6)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to NuSkooler on Fri Apr 24 21:34:43 2026
    NuSkooler wrote to Gamgee <=-

    It's YOU that keeps it going, and YOU that has to keep injecting
    politics into everything you say. That's why.

    Let's see, I responded to a thread about Elon Musk with information on Elon Musk. Perhaps we should define what "politics" are, since you seem
    to think anything you disagree with falls into that category. Last I checked, X is a private company, and Elon Musk isn't a political representative.

    You've said a lot more than just that, some of it political and some of
    it personal attacks. Pretty easily seen by reading back through the
    thread.

    I'm tired of it, and you bore me. Maybe Avon will wake up and say
    something to make you stop. Buh-bye.



    ... Smith & Wesson: The ORIGINAL point-and-click interface.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to NuSkooler on Sun Apr 26 01:28:14 2026
    On Friday, April 24th The Wanderer said...
    And yet, look around you. It is exactly everyone's problem. You can k claiming it, but no, free speech isn't a two-way street.

    Free speech has a lot in relationship with the Paradox of Tolerance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance


    Yes, you can think and say whatever you want. Yes, there can still be reasonable limits on such speech and still remain "free speech"; Yes,
    the lines are alwasy grey.


    The Paradox of Tolerance gets overplayed me thinks. The concept of Free Speech predates it, and the Paradox of Tolerance is one persons idea, raised in 1945, that people now treat as some absolute rule.

    Its like the "Turing Test". One guy spitballs an idea, and people treat it as an ironclad law of the universe. Turing was wrong (to be fair, he couldn't have known at aht time). A machine CAN appear to hold a conversation yet not be intelligent.

    Popper's Paradox of Intolerance may have made sense, and had an audience in 1945, just after WWII, when THAT was what is on everyones mind, but the world had moved on, has changed, and that concept has issues with it now.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From NuSkooler@21:1/121 to boraxman on Sat Apr 25 09:34:49 2026
    On Sunday, April 26th boraxman muttered...
    Its like the "Turing Test". One guy spitballs an idea, and people treat it as an ironclad law of the universe. Turing was wrong (to be fair, he couldn't have known at aht time). A machine CAN appear to hold a conversation yet not be intelligent.

    I think you might be misunderstanding the two highly used 'Turning' - the Turning test, and Turning complete. Even modern AI "fails" the Turning test (it's a measure), and Turning complete is absolutely critical to CS.


    boraxman around Sunday, April 26th...
    Popper's Paradox of Intolerance may have made sense, and had an audience in 1945, just after WWII, when THAT was what is on everyones mind, but the world had moved on, has changed, and that concept has issues with it now.

    I'm not sure I can disagree more. This is still higly regarded. The time period in which someone "coins" a term or concept or how old it is, is in fact pretty irrelevant. Consider Einstein, around the same time you point out.

    It's held up well, and in fact is referenced more & talked about more because it's exactly as relevant. I'm curious what "issues" you believe the conept to have?

    --
    |08 þ |12NuSkooler |06// |12Xibalba |08- |07"|06The place of fear|07"
    |08 þ |03xibalba|08.|03vip |08(|0344510|08/|03telnet|08, |0344511|08/|03ssh|08) |08 þ |03ENiGMA 1/2 WHQ |08| |03Phenom |08| |0367 |08| |03iMPURE |08| |03ACiDic --- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.4.0-beta (linux; x64; 22.22.2)
    * Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.vip:44510 (21:1/121)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to The Wanderer on Sat Apr 25 16:40:20 2026
    The Wanderer wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    The one advantage that it has in this particular era is usability from mobile devices. I do like ye olde and ye newey BBSes, but I haven't yet seen a real usable way of using it from mobile... nor would I really
    want to, I don't think.

    Agreed. BBSing for me used to be a late-night thing you'd do, to try
    and get an open line to one of the BBSes you called. Set them all up to
    round-robin dial, then listen for that Telix connect tone. Always at
    home, always in a darkened room. Maybe one of those old desk lamps
    illuminating the room.

    You'd never be sure which BBS you connected to until you got back in
    front of the computer.

    Lately, it's been a first thing in the morning, cup-of-coffee kinda
    thing. And, by lately, I mean the last 30 years or so. :)



    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From The Wanderer@21:3/233 to NuSkooler on Sat Apr 25 19:51:43 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: NuSkooler to The Wanderer on Fri Apr 24 2026 02:07 pm

    ENiGMA 1/2 BBS just "shipped" ActivityPub/Fediverse support. Seems thus far to fit in with BBS's quite well. I've only added the bread and butter, but it seems like there are some great opportunities to add some "BBS extentions" that boards could use to interop with (sorta like FTN ofc, just another one on the pile...)

    I saw your post about what you've done for the latest release and my eyes kind of bugged out.

    I may try and have a look soon - congrats with the number of changes!
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Yak Station - Some yakkin' happenin'... (21:3/233)
  • From The Wanderer@21:3/233 to NuSkooler on Sat Apr 25 19:54:59 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: NuSkooler to The Wanderer on Fri Apr 24 2026 02:10 pm

    Yes, you can think and say whatever you want. Yes, there can still be reasonable limits on such speech and still remain "free speech"; Yes, the lines are alwasy grey.

    I would agree, including a lot in common with the paradox of intolerance.

    So much of this free speech zealotry that comes up is so absolute, no matter how stupid or dangerous it is. (I also see it as a pretty regional issue...)

    But, so many of those that are condoning free speech at all costs are living the consequenses of it without understanding it.
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Yak Station - Some yakkin' happenin'... (21:3/233)
  • From The Wanderer@21:3/233 to boraxman on Sat Apr 25 20:02:30 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: boraxman to NuSkooler on Sun Apr 26 2026 01:28 am

    Popper's Paradox of Intolerance may have made sense, and had an audience in 1945, just after WWII, when THAT was what is on everyones mind, but the world had moved on, has changed, and that concept has issues with it now.

    How few messages ago was it where you're touting the free speech awesomeness from something Mill wrote in...

    1859...?

    Like it matters when the thing was written?

    The paradox of intolerance is pretty straightforward, clear, and absolutely fits with how things are playing out these days.
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Yak Station - Some yakkin' happenin'... (21:3/233)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to NuSkooler on Sun Apr 26 19:39:06 2026
    I think you might be misunderstanding the two highly used 'Turning' - the Turning test, and Turning complete. Even modern AI "fails" the Turning test (it's a measure), and Turning complete is absolutely critical to CS.


    The Turing test was meant to answer the question, can machines think. It is also knows as the Imitation Game. Tested by seeing whether a machine is able answer questions in a way which make it indistinguishable from a human.

    LLMs don't think. They are statistical models, essentially predictive text on steriods, that are able to form sentences without any actual understanding of the concepts itself. We always thought language meant intelligence, but LLMS demonstrate that one does not need intelligence, nor understanding, to formulate sentences.

    Perhaps you know people like this.

    I'm not sure I can disagree more. This is still higly regarded. The time period in which someone "coins" a term or concept or how old it is, is
    in fact pretty irrelevant. Consider Einstein, around the same time you point out.

    It's held up well, and in fact is referenced more & talked about more because it's exactly as relevant. I'm curious what "issues" you believe the conept to have?


    Of course it is highly regarded, because this thinking is fundamental to modernism and the current ruling ideology. It should come as no surprise that concepts which are used to justify power, are lauded and promoted. The current prevailing set or morals and values relies on this, as it provides the justification for entrenching itself.

    The problem is, what is "intolerance". Is it simply the rejection of a particular idea, or of a people? Who? For who? For what? Who decides? I know, its whoever has the power.

    This is the problem. People can sit and come up with all sorts of philosophies and invent societies, but these are just the musings of academics which often fail when applied to the real world. You say tolerance is a virtue, I disagree. Now what?

    Its not just this idea, but all "ideologies" which suffer from this problem. There is no underpinning moral basis except "I say so". Popper said Open Socities are good, because he said so.

    Lets run the experiment.

    Oh, we have.

    All the "tolerant" countries have brought in intolerant ideologies and religions, and there is nothing they can do. Australia ran a referendum on Gay Marriage, and guess which demographic was most against it. The one we are asked to welcome for Tolerance. If you point this out, you are intolerant. Eventually the "tolerant" West will have to accommodate these views. The open society WILL fail, because it opens itself to those who want to change it.

    Just ask Jewish people today, how things are going in the West, whether they are more or less welcome and why...

    The idea you can have and Open Society AND maintain it by suppressing the intolerant is a pipe dream, and doesn't work in practice. The theory sounds good, but in practice, if you are going to have to police people to maintain an Open Society, you will invariably end up also suppressing the people defending your society against imposed change.

    You simply cannot know what "intolerance" to suppress, and what "intolerance" is actually defensive. If your society is an "Open Society", then for WHO also becomes a question. Identity politics will come into play, and each identity will fight for power.

    So Popper is irrelevant now. Our "Open Society" is competing factions, as ALL pluralistic societies are.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to The Wanderer on Sun Apr 26 19:51:16 2026
    Popper's Paradox of Intolerance may have made sense, and had an audie in 1945, just after WWII, when THAT was what is on everyones mind, bu world had moved on, has changed, and that concept has issues with it

    How few messages ago was it where you're touting the free speech awesomeness from something Mill wrote in...

    1859...?

    Like it matters when the thing was written?

    The paradox of intolerance is pretty straightforward, clear, and absolutely fits with how things are playing out these days.

    The idea of Free Speech holds up, because it is simply a matter of determining a correct epistemological view, rather than a proscription on how to order society.

    The difference is this. Popper was arguing for a specific type of society. His argument presumed a particular ideological view on what even makes a society.

    Mills did not. "Free Speech" doesn't presume that you are trying to maintain an open, or closed society. It makes no presumption on how the concept of "we" is determined. Free Speech can be used even in a closed society.

    But its not really about Popper or Mills. Its about the adoption. The "Paradox of Intolerance" is useful for people who want to maintain the current status quo, as power today is justified on the idea of us being an Open Society. A lot of laws and intrusions into privacy, and restrictions on speech and monitoring are done to maintain an "Open Society".

    The NSW Premier explicitly said that we have to limit freedom for social cohesion. Why? Because Australia became more Open.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From slacker@21:3/193 to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Apr 26 07:54:21 2026
    home, always in a darkened room.
    Maybe one of those old desk lamps
    illuminating the room.

    Lately, it's been a first thing
    in the morning, cup-of-coffee
    kinda
    thing. And, by lately, I mean the
    last 30 years or so. :)

    I'm still split 50:50 here. Right now I'm at my desk in the dark with a single small desk lamp on but I also find myself hopping on first thing in the morning as well on some days.

    For me it also depends on if I'm using real hardware or not. If it's night, 9 times out of 10 I'm on one of my old computers (On my Atari 800 right now..) During the day, I'm most likely using SyncTerm or something on my modern(-ish...) desktop.


    --- NE BBS v2.01 (linux; x64)
    * Origin: NE BBS - nebbs.servehttp.com:9223 (21:3/193)
  • From Ogg@21:3/110.10 to The Wanderer on Sun Apr 26 09:45:00 2026
    Hello The Wanderer!

    ** On Friday 24.04.26 - 12:21, The Wanderer wrote to poindexter FORTRAN:

    [...] I do like ye olde and ye newey BBSes, but I haven't yet
    seen a real usable way of using it from mobile... nor would I really want to, I don't think.

    You should look at the "Powered by BinktermPHP 1.9.3" system, viewable at Claude's BBS: https://claudes.lovelybits.org/

    It adapts to mobile wonderfully. It has searches, sort order, filters, etc.

    It offers an organized list of echoes by overall interest:

    https://claudes.lovelybits.org/interests

    It carries 13 networks from Agornet to Tqwnet



    --- OpenXP 5.0.64
    * Origin: #Vote[blue:sky|eyes]only \o/ (21:3/110.10)
  • From NuSkooler@21:1/121 to The Wanderer on Sun Apr 26 13:14:08 2026
    Twas Saturday, April 25th when The Wanderer said...
    I saw your post about what you've done for the latest release and my eyes kind of bugged out.

    Thanks! Quite a few things have been on the backburner for a while, and others in half baked. Glad I've had some time to get some of this done recently!

    --
    |08 þ |12NuSkooler |06// |12Xibalba |08- |07"|06The place of fear|07"
    |08 þ |03xibalba|08.|03vip |08(|0344510|08/|03telnet|08, |0344511|08/|03ssh|08) |08 þ |03ENiGMA 1/2 WHQ |08| |03Phenom |08| |0367 |08| |03iMPURE |08| |03ACiDic --- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.4.0-beta (linux; x64; 22.22.2)
    * Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.vip:44510 (21:1/121)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to NuSkooler on Thu Apr 30 18:19:13 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: NuSkooler to Gamgee on Fri Apr 24 2026 12:40 pm


    Let's see, I responded to a thread about Elon Musk with information on Elon Musk. Perhaps we should define what "politics" are, since you seem to think anything you disagree with falls into that category. Last I checked, X is a private company, and Elon Musk isn't a political representative.


    It doesn't matter, you are laying critics on Elon and X on political grounds, which is not allowed (it is not a rule I like but it is what it is).


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to The Wanderer on Thu Apr 30 18:27:47 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: The Wanderer to NuSkooler on Sat Apr 25 2026 07:54 pm


    So much of this free speech zealotry that comes up is so absolute, no matter how stupid or dangerous it is. (I also see it as a pretty regional issue...)


    The real problem with free speech is that it is always reclaimed by the underdogs and always denied by the powerful.

    Around 2012 or so it was always a certain political group that was reclaiming free speech and freedom against the administration.

    Years later that group became powerful and started denying those rights were important or universal.

    If it were for those people they would be the only ones allowed to speak, and this is precisely the problem. Specially because BBS space is full of such people.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)